Modified engine crewcab gas mileage?

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Nelsonic

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I have an 89 3500 crew 4x4 with an HT 502 currently running 33s with the factory TBI and th400. I get 9 MPG. I’m about to upgrade to a ProFlo4 fuel injection and a 4l80e. Mainly to drop the rpm at highway speeds but hopefully I’ll squeeze another couple of mpg out of it.
 

TotalyHucked

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It's been creeping down slightly here in Ga
 

Bextreme04

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I have an 89 3500 crew 4x4 with an HT 502 currently running 33s with the factory TBI and th400. I get 9 MPG. I’m about to upgrade to a ProFlo4 fuel injection and a 4l80e. Mainly to drop the rpm at highway speeds but hopefully I’ll squeeze another couple of mpg out of it.
I'd avoid the ProFlo... I've heard nothing but bad things about their computer and the programming ability of it. Probably cheaper and easier to put a holley BBC manifold on it and run factory P01 or P59 ECU. You should be able to get a throttle body, pedal, wiring harness, and computer for dirt cheap from a junkyard and then just buy the intake, fuel rail and injectors from any speed shop like Summit or Jegs. The P01 or P59 will run the 4L80 just fine and you'll have tons of support available with factory GM parts at that point.
 

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Or central Indiana! Or Michigan, Ohio, or anyplace my recent travels have taken me.
It’s actually gone up a fair bit in the last month in about every region of the us. I’d hazard to say every region but apparently you find the only place it’s going down.
Regardless, the point above about fuel mileage is mostly a placebo if you’re chasing it and think you achieve it.
And most of y’all would freak out at our gas prices here! Lol
 

85K304SPD

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6.99 to best of 9.75 mpg on my 85 K30 with mild 410 Big block/4 speed. 4.10 gears. I keep trying to get to 10 MPG! The good thing is it runs on low octane pump gas.
The best on my 2007 GMC is 15.99 MPG. Regular daily driving.
I calculate the mileage when I fill up. miles/gallons.
I don't think anybody is getting 20 MPG in any gas truck or 15 MPG in a square body.
 

mibars

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There is a curve in the engine where BSFC(Brake specific fuel consumption) is best, this means that there is an RPM and throttle position at which the engine produces the most power with the least amount of fuel. For max efficiency, you want the engine to be in that band when cruising.
I'd love to see these curves for our engines, so far my engine knowledge seems to be proven not applicable to old American V8's. Usually low RPM and almost lugging the engine is what's best for MPG as both the friction and pumping losses are minimized, but not with small and big blocks. Answer probably lies in these curves...

Well let me rephrase, I shouldn't have called it a lockup because it technically isn't, what it is is a fuel miser torque converter by Hughes, it acts like a lockup converter by greatly reducing slippage and drops rpms a couple hundred rpm when cruising. Essentially a lockup converter but not technically a lockup.
So technically a very low stall converter, like in modern transmission.

I'm always amused by how much money people are willing to spend to squeak out another MPG or two in their square. Gas is cheap and getting cheaper under the new administration.
That's future proofing :) Gas prices vary and there are times and places where fighting for fuel economy makes no economical sense. Also some of us may want to burn less fuel just for the sake of consuming less resources.
 

Bextreme04

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I'd love to see these curves for our engines, so far my engine knowledge seems to be proven not applicable to old American V8's. Usually low RPM and almost lugging the engine is what's best for MPG as both the friction and pumping losses are minimized, but not with small and big blocks. Answer probably lies in these curves...


So technically a very low stall converter, like in modern transmission.


That's future proofing :) Gas prices vary and there are times and places where fighting for fuel economy makes no economical sense. Also some of us may want to burn less fuel just for the sake of consuming less resources.
You would need a dyno and pretty precise equipment to create one, but it is doable. I bet GM has the curves for all of their engines, especially the newer fuel injected ones. For fuel Injected engines I think you could get pretty close to accurate numbers using the logging function in HP tuners using the calculated torque and fuel flow numbers. I'm really contemplating getting an EGT gauge and tuning my BBC for lean cruise. If I could get it dialed in right, that could be an improvement of up to 20% on the highway. You need a computer that is properly set up for it and an EGT gauge to do it right without melting pistons though.
 

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Swapping rear gears would help alot no doubt. 3.08s and 32s definitely is not helping the motor any. My blazer has 3.73s and 33s and that's about the highest I'd go for 33s
I'm not worried about gas milage with the truck. I agree gears would help get it moving from a stop, but they cost you at highway speeds. The engine makes enough torque down low to where it doesn't lug the engine. Plans later on down the road call for 4:10's and a 4L60E, or 80E tranny. I only use 10-12 gallons of gas a week. My 04 2500 HD only averages 12 MPG. I'm thinking with the gear and tranny change milage might increase 2- 4 MPG. Using the 60E with the 3.06 first gear I wouldn't even need a gear change. Being a K series, the gear change is twice the cost. Trucks don't get good gas milage.
 

HotWheelsBurban

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I'm not worried about gas milage with the truck. I agree gears would help get it moving from a stop, but they cost you at highway speeds. The engine makes enough torque down low to where it doesn't lug the engine. Plans later on down the road call for 4:10's and a 4L60E, or 80E tranny. I only use 10-12 gallons of gas a week. My 04 2500 HD only averages 12 MPG. I'm thinking with the gear and tranny change milage might increase 2- 4 MPG. Using the 60E with the 3.06 first gear I wouldn't even need a gear change. Being a K series, the gear change is twice the cost. Trucks don't get good gas milage.
3.73/4.10 rear end gearing, what makes that livable and driveable is the modern overdrive automatic. My OBS Burb gets off the line great with 3.42 and the first gear of the 4L60E. Big truck has a 4L80E and 4.10s, it's pretty snappy once the grunt gets to the rear wheels, back in the previous block LoL.... Both have plenty of legs on the highway too.
 

1lejohn

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You would need a dyno and pretty precise equipment to create one, but it is doable. I bet GM has the curves for all of their engines, especially the newer fuel injected ones. For fuel Injected engines I think you could get pretty close to accurate numbers using the logging function in HP tuners using the calculated torque and fuel flow numbers. I'm really contemplating getting an EGT gauge and tuning my BBC for lean cruise. If I could get it dialed in right, that could be an improvement of up to 20% on the highway. You need a computer that is properly set up for it and an EGT gauge to do it right without melting pistons though.
If you haven't watched the UNITY Garage series of videos you should. He talks about the timing curves on his big block Ford truck. He discusses that he can run upwards of 50 degrees of timing with lean mixtures at cruise throttle positions. David Vinyard also talks about it. You are on point about doing this with your truck. My truck at light throttle is at 15-16 AFR. I would like to take a trip at highway speeds to check my milage. The 9.5 is in stop and go traffic. The real benefit of fuel injection is the timing control. Thats their opinion. I agree with them. The fuel metering is second. The older FI was batch fired not much better than a carb. JMHOP. With direct injection the fuel metering is more precise. It brings along carbon build up and no cooling affect like a Carb.
 

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If you haven't watched the UNITY Garage series of videos you should. He talks about the timing curves on his big block Ford truck. He discusses that he can run upwards of 50 degrees of timing with lean mixtures at cruise throttle positions. David Vinyard also talks about it. You are on point about doing this with your truck. My truck at light throttle is at 15-16 AFR. I would like to take a trip at highway speeds to check my milage. The 9.5 is in stop and go traffic. The real benefit of fuel injection is the timing control. Thats their opinion. I agree with them. The fuel metering is second. The older FI was batch fired not much better than a carb. JMHOP. With direct injection the fuel metering is more precise. It brings along carbon build up and no cooling affect like a Carb.

Not too many people understand lean mixtures at cruise is no big deal. Everyone freaks out thinking they are going to melts pistons or the engine will run hot.

Nonsense!!

At cruise, the engine is under a light load. It’s not going to run hot.

Find a smooth level road to test. On a typical weather day, drive the truck at highway speed. Then lean the part throttle out, and drive the test road again. Keep leaning out the mixture until you get a lean miss, then richen it up until the miss goes away.

Once that’s done, you can play around with power piston or springs to deal with the power circuit.
 

1lejohn

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Not too many people understand lean mixtures at cruise is no big deal. Everyone freaks out thinking they are going to melts pistons or the engine will run hot.

Nonsense!!

At cruise, the engine is under a light load. It’s not going to run hot.

Find a smooth level road to test. On a typical weather day, drive the truck at highway speed. Then lean the part throttle out, and drive the test road again. Keep leaning out the mixture until you get a lean miss, then richen it up until the miss goes away.

Once that’s done, you can play around with power piston or springs to deal with the power circuit.
To add to it. Invest in a wide band to tune with. It makes the process much easier.
 

Bextreme04

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If you haven't watched the UNITY Garage series of videos you should. He talks about the timing curves on his big block Ford truck. He discusses that he can run upwards of 50 degrees of timing with lean mixtures at cruise throttle positions. David Vinyard also talks about it. You are on point about doing this with your truck. My truck at light throttle is at 15-16 AFR. I would like to take a trip at highway speeds to check my milage. The 9.5 is in stop and go traffic. The real benefit of fuel injection is the timing control. Thats their opinion. I agree with them. The fuel metering is second. The older FI was batch fired not much better than a carb. JMHOP. With direct injection the fuel metering is more precise. It brings along carbon build up and no cooling affect like a Carb.
You have to run more timing on a lean mixture because the combustion happens slower in extreme lean conditions. You could actually be hurting the engine and not getting the real benefit of lean cruise in the 15-16AFR range. A lean mixture does have significantly higher EGT's than a stoich mixture. That's why you should really have an EGT sensor when initially dialing in a lean cruise, you could be getting a miss from preignition or other reasons. What will happen when tuning for lean cruise is that as you lean the mixture out, the EGT's will climb higher and higher until about 16:1, then they will peak and sharply fall off. When they fall off, you will also find that the fuel used for a given load drops off at the same time. Once you find that fuel amount, you can then go in and start advancing the timing until you start getting some knock, or the engine efficiency starts dropping off. With an 0411 computer and HP tuners, you can use their RTT operating system and get the timing curves for cruise dialed in for peak efficiency while actively driving it.

Here's a diagram from an aviation handbook. This is the diagram from a lycoming engine, but most internal combustion engines will follow the same behavior. Basically, stoich is going to be the line between best economy and max power. The middle of the max power range will often be in the 12.5:1 range. Peak EGT will be somewhere in that 15:1-16:1 range depending on the engine and other factors. Timing will affect the actual value of the EGT, but not what AFR the peak occurs at. So you tune for the maximum efficiency AFR, then adjust the timing to stay out of knock and get peak efficiency with lowest EGT. You want the EGT gauge in there because you are tuning over extended periods of time and if you somehow have it all jacked up, you could have your EGT's high enough to start pitting and melting pistons pretty quick. You ideally want the EGT to stay under 1000 degrees for extended periods of time. If it starts hitting 1200, you are into damaging piston territory and 1300 is starting to make a liquid.

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Ricko1966

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Too add to all of this, when you add egr into the equation,you run a cooler combustion chamber,a less dense mixture and can run more ignition timing. SBCs with the right mixture and EGR can run 50+ BTDC at lean cruise, the lean mixture,the less charged mixture due to egr,and the extra timing adds up on the highway mpg. Way too many people only worry about initial and total,and don't realize what they are leaving on the table at lean cruise.
 
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