Long tube or short tube headers?

[Smelly_Markers]

Hey guys, new to the site and GM square bodies. I just picked up a rust free 1986 k2500 350 3spd manual 4x4 and was wondering what headers would work best with my setup. AIR pump is already gone just has the god awful EGR manifolds and I want to replace them with headers. Not to keen on which headers would be a good choice with my setup though. Long tubes sound great, had them on an 85' Monte Carlo with a 305, but I don't know if long tubes will reduce low end torque on the trucks motor. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks, Tony.

 

[firebane]

long tubes are for torque so on a 4x4 truck that is what you want to use.

 

[hirschdalechevy]

I really like the doug thorley tri y's , thick flange , thicker tubes than most , had and have them on a lot of square's , 0 problems. They are not cheap but you get what you pay for.

I just bought a set of heddman heavy duty , elite header's for my blazer to save a little money , (they are still not cheap really) and they are the same flange thickness and tube thickness as the thorley's. They fit really well and are a nice header , but I have only had them on there for 6 months , so far so good.

My blazer motor is a mild 400 smallblock , 9to1 , 262 comp cam , 2 1/2 pipe , moroso spiral flows , and it sounds way mean for a mild motor.

I never buy cheap header's , but thats just me and I have never had anything but long tubes so I really dont know anything about shorty's

The way I see it header's on a stock to mild motor you are not going to notice a big power gain anyway but I just like the sound and the looks under the hood.

 

[MadOgre]

Actually Long tubes are for HP and shorties are for torque. That's why you often find 4x4 guys running stock cast iron manifolds. The best thing would be the Tri Y headers by Doug Thorley or a set of shorty headers. Shorty headers fit right in place of the stock manifolds and will fit right up to the stock exhaust with no issues except spark plugs lol which every header has issues with.

Stainless steel is the best material to have them made with. But you can buy cheaper ones with just a coating.

I myself am going to buy a set of stainless shorty headers for my project.

 

[firebane]

Actually Long tubes are for HP and shorties are for torque. That's why you often find 4x4 guys running stock cast iron manifolds. The best thing would be the Tri Y headers by Doug Thorley or a set of shorty headers. Shorty headers fit right in place of the stock manifolds and will fit right up to the stock exhaust with no issues except spark plugs lol which every header has issues with.

Stainless steel is the best material to have them made with. But you can buy cheaper ones with just a coating.

I myself am going to buy a set of stainless shorty headers for my project.

For a variety of reasons that involve physics, it turns out that long tube headers do the best job building horsepower and torque from mid-to-high RPMs. These are great for high-revving machines and track terrors, but they do sacrifice some of the low-RPM power that most drivers depend on.

On the other side of the coin, shorty headers deliver more power horsepower and torque from idle to the mid-RPM range. This makes shorty headers perfect for your daily commute or hauling your boat up a hill. We'll also note that sometimes short tubes can be easier to install. Check out some exhaust header reviews to get the inside scoop on installation.

Splitting hairs.

 

[Joe383]

I would go long tubes. Most people who are running manifolds are not doing it for torque there doing it cuz they don't like header leaks. If you want low RPM torque get a set with 1.5" primaries but if your swapping to a larger cam I would get the 1 5/8 primaries. I am doing the whole exhaust on my 85 4X4 soon. I have all the parts but I have not pulled the big block yet to install my 350. I went with a Hooker kit all the way back, mufflers and all. Very nice stuff. Dynomax makes a kit but I cant find there headers they recommend. Summit has them listed as un available. The piping is cheep like $117 but it is not mandrel bent like the hooker kit. You either going to have to have some one connect in to your exhaust or you can get one designed for the headers like me which is what I recommend cuz for the cost of having an exhaust shop do the work you could have just got new better pipe and do it your self. Also as far as headers go get some good ones. My hookers are way better constructed than a pair of dynomax or summit ( have had both ). I have shortys on my 86 Camaro they suck. I have had them on a few rigs. If your going to get headers get a real set. The only draw back on long tubes is starter heat soak on some rigs. No usually a problem on a lifted truck though.

 

[MadOgre]

I would go long tubes. Most people who are running manifolds are not doing it for torque there doing it cuz they don't like header leaks. If you want low RPM torque get a set with 1.5" primaries but if your swapping to a larger cam I would get the 1 5/8 primaries. I am doing the whole exhaust on my 85 4X4 soon. I have all the parts but I have not pulled the big block yet to install my 350. I went with a Hooker kit all the way back, mufflers and all. Very nice stuff. Dynomax makes a kit but I cant find there headers they recommend. Summit has them listed as un available. The piping is cheep like $117 but it is not mandrel bent like the hooker kit. You either going to have to have some one connect in to your exhaust or you can get one designed for the headers like me which is what I recommend cuz for the cost of having an exhaust shop do the work you could have just got new better pipe and do it your self. Also as far as headers go get some good ones. My hookers are way better constructed than a pair of dynomax or summit ( have had both ). I have shortys on my 86 Camaro they suck. I have had them on a few rigs. If your going to get headers get a real set. The only draw back on long tubes is starter heat soak on some rigs. No usually a problem on a lifted truck though.

I would never put shorties on a Camaro. They wont do a dang thing for a fast car. Shorties are for Idle to 3000 RPM maybe 3500

A Camaro is always in the 2500-5500 rpm range. Otherwise your just puttin in which case any header would be a non factor.

I would put shorties on a 4x4, cause an all out full throttle pass is gonna max out at 4-4500 RPM

Tri Y headers are the best hands down for a 4x4 and they are designed to have the back pressure characteristics of a shorty header or stock iron manifold but timed to increase the flow like long tubes.

 

[Joe383]

The car had them on it when I got the car. There welded strait to the exhaust too. The exhaust was new from the headers back. I got the car from a girl that was mad at her ex boyfriend for $600. I just needed something to put my vortec in so I would break it in. I am axially pulling it tomorrow so I can put the motor in my 3/4 ton truck. Too bad though as I just got the jetting close the were I think it should be and the car is crazy fast. Not going to be so quick in my 6,800 LB truck. A full throttle pass in my truck is going to be like 5,500-5,800K My power band is around 2,000-5,500+ RPM Even a mild cam, anything larger than a RV cam will have a power band in this range. Never tried a Tri Y header. Have had a 4-2-1 on a 4 banger once and it did make more low end torque than the stock manifold but I also deleted the cat at the same time I did that swap. Only time I had ever lost low RPM torque was when I did a long tube on a dodge neon but I also deleted the cat and the computer did not like the mod. I have never lost torque on a V 8 though. Lot of the cheep headers I have had were 1 1/2" primary and do good on the low end. The headers I have for my truck now are 1 5/8 cuz I am looking for mid range and top end out of it but if it was stock to around 300 HP I would have got 1 1/2.

 

[LipRipr]

I had long tube headers on my 454 & what I didn't like was the one side is right beside the starter making it very hot & every time I drove in wet conditions I would be replacing the collector gasket shortly after. Other than that I loved them.
Get yourself a locking bolt kit for the header bolts at the head. Save you from leaks & replacing gaskets.

 

[Grumpy Grizzly]

I'm actually going to use my stock manifolds. Only thing I'll do is take em off and get at em with the dremmel to smooth out the inner surface area.

I am also going to take the heads off and do the same to the intake and exhaust.

In my opinion that will cast less with the same power gains.

The smoother the better the fow.

I'm no expert here but have read a lot on this as an alternative to costly headers that get in the way / burn plug wires.

 

[MadOgre]

I'm actually going to use my stock manifolds. Only thing I'll do is take em off and get at em with the dremmel to smooth out the inner surface area.

I am also going to take the heads off and do the same to the intake and exhaust.

In my opinion that will cast less with the same power gains.

The smoother the better the fow.

I'm no expert here but have read a lot on this as an alternative to costly headers that get in the way / burn plug wires.

Good plan! I actually like the look of my stock manifolds and have thought about doing the same thing to mine as well.

 

[Joe383]

Sorry to tell you this but the dremmel is not going to give the same gains as a set of headers. Also the headers wont do much if every thing behind them is still stock. You kinda wont to work from the tail pipe forward. No point in headers if you have small exhaust pipe and a stock muffler. Part of the gains in HP and torque come from not only the larger tubes but the length of the primary tubes as well. Just like the length of your intake runners play a role in were peak torque happens so dose the header tubes and a manifold is way way to short for any thing other than idle. Honestly most SBC carb intakes are too short but there is not enough room to make them as long as they should be. Headers on the other hand can be as long as you wont them. You will probably make power with the dremmel cuz chevy did such a poor job on things to begin with but it will not be close to header and exhaust power.

 

[rumblebox]

Shorties are a waste of money unless they're going into a turbo. In most cases, long tubes make more power everywhere if properly sized to the setup.

 

[Jarhead79]

So say I've got a stock 350 2 wheel drive and want to go headers, say 2.5 inch dual exhaust, would it matter going short versus longtube?

 

[rumblebox]

So say I've got a stock 350 2 wheel drive and want to go headers, say 2.5 inch dual exhaust, would it matter going short versus longtube?

Yes. Even with the shittiest heads. You just need smaller primaries. The closer to the engine, the hotter the gas. Therefore, it matters more the farther forward the exhaust is. That's why headers and crappy exhaust always make more power than manifolds and a catback.