charcoal ingestion

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Pmac

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I posted this request for help recently but likely in the incorrect spot - it is not mouse droppings - the charcoal in all a uniform size and there is at least a cup(!) "I found at least a cup of very small charcoal cylinder shaped (1/16th by 1/8th)pellets on top of my secondary air doors and in the bottom of the air cleaner two days ago. I put the pedal down on a country road and instead of the hearing the QJet moan – the engine was choking for air; I removed the lid and was shocked to find a cup (or more) of tiny black cylinders inside of the air filters , I swept them out as best I could and drove the ten miles home( no choice, rural area) the engine was barely running. I reckon something let go in the damned charcoal canister and when the air doors opened up it sucked the charcoal up the ‘clean air tube “ACLNR” ‘. The QJet is knackered, I know – but what about the engine? Has anyone seen this before? 1981 GMC C 1500 Canadian 305/350 camper spec. One more observation - the vacuum valve that closes the snorkel failed and although up to operating temperature the engine only had air coming in through the heat stove pipe ( and the clean air tube)."
 

gotyourgoat

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Has anyone seen this before? "
No.
In fact I'm not sure how the charcoal would even get up there. It's sandwiched between a filter material inside the canister, there's the check valves on top and mine at least is plumbed in below the air cleaner directly into the side ports of the carb.
 

Goldie Driver

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I had a 79 Trans Am with a 403 that had a similar failure, but I am not sure how much of that crap got in the carb.

I did not do the work, either- the hot rod mechanics I know did.

No motor issues, though.

My guess is that it is not a common failure, and you and I were just "lucky"...

:rolleyes:

Hope all works out for you.
 

Raider L

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How in the world could those pellets get up the small, 3/8th in. hoses going to the air cleaner and the carb base? Failed or not it would take hellish vacuum to suck those pellets up the hose. Yeah, as engine air got more restricted there would be an increase in vacuum but only for a moment and then the vacuum would drop off as the rpm dropped. Man! I can't even imagine the charcoal getting in the air cleaner or the carb. That's amazing! I would sacrifice the filter and look and see exactly what let loose in order for it to fail. You could always get another one at the wrecking yard. I remember seeing a couple of the a month or so ago. I thought, "Looka there. An old vapor filter." I was just sitting up on the front inner wheel fender. The other one was where it would be down in behind the radiator support. People just left it in place. It st5ill had the hose attached to it.
 

PrairieDrifter

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Guys don't forget about the flame arrester thing in the intake lid. I guarantee you have one and I guarantee it's broken, it would dump straight in the mouth of the carb.

I removed mine on my 84 burban for flow and cleanliness, but I guess I have a third reason now.
 

PrairieDrifter

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When I took mine apart it had the really small pellets as well, and this would explain how they got in the carb.
 

Wumbo

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Guys don't forget about the flame arrester thing in the intake lid. I guarantee you have one and I guarantee it's broken, it would dump straight in the mouth of the carb.

I removed mine on my 84 burban for flow and cleanliness, but I guess I have a third reason now.

Was going to say the same thing.

As for engine damage, most activated carbon is made from bone or coconut shell. It's somewhat abrasive, but I dont know if it's hard enough to damage cylinder walls, rings, or valves.
 

PrairieDrifter

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Was going to say the same thing.

As for engine damage, most activated carbon is made from bone or coconut shell. It's somewhat abrasive, but I dont know if it's hard enough to damage cylinder walls, rings, or valves.
Agreed.
It's hard for me to say as well. I'm sure it wasn't good for anything at all, but I can't say that it would have "ruined" anything. Maybe it even combusted?! I'd get the carb cleaned up and put back on, and inspect what you can otherwise.

For sure pull the spark plugs and see if they have any damage. Maybe a compression test will be needed. You could even take one of those small cameras and look in the cylinders through the spark plug holes.

Clean stuff up first and do a light inspection then get it running to get a feel for it's health. Then proceed down the list from there.
 

MrMarty51

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Just do a decarbon clean out of the engine.
Get a jug of the stuff from the dealer and pour it through the carb and just perform the decarbon procedure.
That way if there is any of them pellets hanging out in the cylinders it`ll blast and clean them out. If any of that crap is stuck to the valves it will knock it loose too.
 

Pmac

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“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” A.C.Doyle.
Condition: Stumble/stalls/will not restart/fuel overflowing from primary Qjet chamber and at least a cup of charcoal pellets from the canister sitting on the secondary air doors/valves of the Qjet on my ’81 C1500.
Cause: The air cleaner “THERMAC VALVE” temperature sensor did not bleed off vacuum – with the thermac air sensor stuck in constant hot Air Delivery Mode, no matter what the ambient air temp (about 75°F that day), vacuum was maintained to the snorkel motor/door(s) assembly , holding damper door up, shutting off outside air and allowing only hot air travelling up the tube attached to the heat stove (around the exhaust manifold) to enter the air cleaner through the tiny door built into the bottom of the snorkel – no fresh air source ; as the engine was up to normal operating temp, the choke fully open, and secondary throttle plates free to travel their full range of motion – the top air doors responded to the back barrels vacuum signal – as the defective THERMAC sensor’s vacuum signal held that snorkel valve shut tight (try assembling a factory air cleaner with out the top nut and watch what happens when the engine is revved to 1500 rpm, it will suck the top can down with some force – and that is just the draught on the primary side ).
When I went to W.O.T. that day (I have read posts in the past stating the snorkel valve would be pulled open by the carburetor’s fresh air demands but no so) the failed 40-year-old charcoal canister filter did not stop pellets from actuality traveling through the hose marked “ACLNR” on the canister to the “filtered air” hooded port in the air cleaner – ( that port is inboard of the air filter(s); this air cleaner still has the tall fine mesh ring that the “polywrap” once surrounded as well as a K&N) and charcoal was deposited into the primary chamber of the Qjet – resulting in a severe stumble, when I backed off the throttle, and the secondary air doors snapped shut, resulting cup or so of pellets dumping atop of the door plates, at least as much was ingested by the primary side.
Correction:
Removing the Air Cleaner I cycled the sensor several times with a heat gun checking each time with a infra-red thermometer – it did begin to function however but not within a practical range – (the Air Cleaner ‘can’ internal temp exceeded 140 F and the valve did not fully open) in my part of the world this system is an asset, as the outdoor temperature can be as high as 100°F and low as -40°F.
I removed the Qjet and cleaned out all the passages – and it functions! Remarkable how robust these Qjets are. I have not yet got the choke and secondary doors back to where they were pre-charcoal catastrophe – this carb used to start with one set of the choke no matter what how cold or hot it was, and the secondary air doors did open just as I wanted (it did take a week or more of set-up a few years ago to get there). The truck lives on.
So I hope this will help others – beware of the charcoal can and the THERMAC sensor.
I have images - just do not know how to attach them, but you get the idea.
 

Bennyt

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Happened on my 2006 Suburban. Those pellets went into every emissions hose on the truck. Had to drop the tank and blow out every line front to back. Got most out the first try, and about 2-3 mos later had to do it again and get out the remaining. Every time I swept the driveway for a year, i'd find pellets.
 

Goldie Driver

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“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” A.C.Doyle.
Condition: Stumble/stalls/will not restart/fuel overflowing from primary Qjet chamber and at least a cup of charcoal pellets from the canister sitting on the secondary air doors/valves of the Qjet on my ’81 C1500.
Cause: The air cleaner “THERMAC VALVE” temperature sensor did not bleed off vacuum – with the thermac air sensor stuck in constant hot Air Delivery Mode, no matter what the ambient air temp (about 75°F that day), vacuum was maintained to the snorkel motor/door(s) assembly , holding damper door up, shutting off outside air and allowing only hot air travelling up the tube attached to the heat stove (around the exhaust manifold) to enter the air cleaner through the tiny door built into the bottom of the snorkel – no fresh air source ; as the engine was up to normal operating temp, the choke fully open, and secondary throttle plates free to travel their full range of motion – the top air doors responded to the back barrels vacuum signal – as the defective THERMAC sensor’s vacuum signal held that snorkel valve shut tight (try assembling a factory air cleaner with out the top nut and watch what happens when the engine is revved to 1500 rpm, it will suck the top can down with some force – and that is just the draught on the primary side ).
When I went to W.O.T. that day (I have read posts in the past stating the snorkel valve would be pulled open by the carburetor’s fresh air demands but no so) the failed 40-year-old charcoal canister filter did not stop pellets from actuality traveling through the hose marked “ACLNR” on the canister to the “filtered air” hooded port in the air cleaner – ( that port is inboard of the air filter(s); this air cleaner still has the tall fine mesh ring that the “polywrap” once surrounded as well as a K&N) and charcoal was deposited into the primary chamber of the Qjet – resulting in a severe stumble, when I backed off the throttle, and the secondary air doors snapped shut, resulting cup or so of pellets dumping atop of the door plates, at least as much was ingested by the primary side.
Correction:
Removing the Air Cleaner I cycled the sensor several times with a heat gun checking each time with a infra-red thermometer – it did begin to function however but not within a practical range – (the Air Cleaner ‘can’ internal temp exceeded 140 F and the valve did not fully open) in my part of the world this system is an asset, as the outdoor temperature can be as high as 100°F and low as -40°F.
I removed the Qjet and cleaned out all the passages – and it functions! Remarkable how robust these Qjets are. I have not yet got the choke and secondary doors back to where they were pre-charcoal catastrophe – this carb used to start with one set of the choke no matter what how cold or hot it was, and the secondary air doors did open just as I wanted (it did take a week or more of set-up a few years ago to get there). The truck lives on.
So I hope this will help others – beware of the charcoal can and the THERMAC sensor.
I have images - just do not know how to attach them, but you get the idea.


Thanks for the info - I just checked mine (Thermac ) and engine off , it is open, engine on ( cold ) it is closed. I'll check it warm tonight.

Never know ….
 

Jdgrant96

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The guy I bought my truck from had the fuel bowl vent hose attached directly at the charcoal can. Somehow the pellets made it up that hose and into the fuel bowl
 

MikeGs1982

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Just reading through the old threads as a new member. My 83 just did the same thing. Mine pulled the carbon all the way from the canister up to the decel valve and into the breather. Just removed the decel valve from the circuit since the control line “nipple” was broken off and the valve wasn’t working.
 

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