87 Stock TBI 350 air cleaner lid flip upside down? Does it help? does it hurt? good or bad idea?

[gsuburban]

GM also had cowl induction on their Chevelle/Malibu and El Camino's in 1970. Ford had the Shaker Hood on the Mustang in 1969/1970.

 

[82sbshortbed]

Mines flipped because I like it when the back barrels open. I couldn't care less about the difference in warm or a little cooler air. All air is hot in Texas anyway. Don't think it makes much of a difference imo.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Ok, you and I agree took it wrong. I have seen that intake arrangement before. DNK if it is for noise, water or another reason. Have seen something similar on small blocks with the cold climate option. Actually, have a complete cold climate snorkel set on the shelf.

Intake resonator, I believe california had noise emission regs for a long time now? I forgot , but based on the timing differences and exhaust differences, its possible the sound of the engines became less pleasant or went above under certain driving conditions. and intake resonator helps sometimes in situations with MAF(not these trucks)

 

[AuroraGirl]

Mines flipped because I like it when the back barrels open. I couldn't care less about the difference in warm or a little cooler air. All air is hot in Texas anyway. Don't think it makes much of a difference imo.

when not moving the air underhood can get significantly hotter, but in your situation in texas Id imagine youre replacing your filters from dust more often than we do up here. If you were to route the snorkel to the front and do that, do you get longer intervals ? That little cap thing + being forward on the body Id imagine results in less dust going to the filter but thats just a theory

 

[Vettenut]

The Mechanic that trained me way back in the day always said that the manufacturer paid engineers way more than we make to design these systems, so who are we to change what they have said is best.

 

[AuroraGirl]

The Mechanic that trained me way back in the day always said that the manufacturer paid engineers way more than we make to design these systems, so who are we to change what they have said is best.

true sometimes.
There was an engineer who decided that Ford would use a 2G alternator, but after enough cars got crispy they opted to change that lol. Keeping it in mind that why something was done and is there anything that has been learned/changed since then to work better is always a good idea.

 

[cjdock]

Do you guys watch Engine Masters? They had an episode that compared pulling air in through the top of air cleaner like what I attached, versus a stock type that forces the air to bend 90 degrees first. Pretty big difference without the bend.
As far as cool/hot air, that depends on they time of year. Here in michigan its cold 9 months out of 12 so I don't see the "heated" air as an issue but do understand the concept. I know this isnt exactly like flipping the lid but it would be cool to see the dyno difference in a controlled environment with hood temp out of the equation.

 

[hotrod9967]

I designed the engine air induction system for the GMT800 program (7 different powertrains), introduced in 1999. Most of the components are still in use today.

I can say with authority that you gain more from picking up the cool air at the front of the vehicle than by drawing hot underhood air. You more than offset any increase in restriction due to the ductwork.

I ran a dual snorkel setup same as what Craig 85 is showing, with a flat hood on my Chevelle for many, many (many) years. It was easily worth .2 sec reduction in ET, from 12 flat to 11.80's.

K

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[Craig 85]

I designed the engine air induction system for the GMT800 program (7 different powertrains), introduced in 1999. Most of the components are still in use today.

K

It's funny most guys on my 2500 Suburban/Yukon XL group still run the stock air box and refuse to change to a "CAI" set up.

 

[cjdock]

Do you guys watch Engine Masters? They had an episode that compared pulling air in through the top of air cleaner like what I attached, versus a stock type that forces the air to bend 90 degrees first. Pretty big difference without the bend.
As far as cool/hot air, that depends on they time of year. Here in michigan its cold 9 months out of 12 so I don't see the "heated" air as an issue but do understand the concept. I know this isnt exactly like flipping the lid but it would be cool to see the dyno difference in a controlled environment with hood temp out of the equation.

One thing to add, I am using this setup. I still get some outside air in, plus the top down affect and the flipped lid affect. I just did a trip from MI to Pittsburgh (355 mile) in my '85 C10, 350 motor with Q-jet, 350 turbo trans and crap rear less than a 3.0 ratio gear. I tac 24-2500 rpm at 70. I went 65-70 the whole way there and truly and accurately got 17.5 mpg the whole way. Not sure what other folks get with this setup but I was happy with that. The motor is a '91 350 though.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Do you guys watch Engine Masters? They had an episode that compared pulling air in through the top of air cleaner like what I attached, versus a stock type that forces the air to bend 90 degrees first. Pretty big difference without the bend.
As far as cool/hot air, that depends on they time of year. Here in michigan its cold 9 months out of 12 so I don't see the "heated" air as an issue but do understand the concept. I know this isnt exactly like flipping the lid but it would be cool to see the dyno difference in a controlled environment with hood temp out of the equation.

Id imagine certain muscle car hoods of the era based on functional vents or openings and shape would potentially benefit from that, a truck, only like how it was shown with the base still snorkeling to the core support. that supplies the cold air and the increased surface area supplies the air to the capacity it will take

 

[Keith Seymore]

? That little cap thing + being forward on the body Id imagine results in less dust going to the filter but thats just a theory

Bugs.

It keeps the bugs and small birds out.

Maybe some water. Water ingestion is the bane of the induction engineer's existence.

K

 

[Keith Seymore]

The Mechanic that trained me way back in the day always said that the manufacturer paid engineers way more than we make to design these systems, so who are we to change what they have said is best.

It's not really the money. It's the collective brain kWatt-hrs.

You've got a team of engineering specialists, maybe one leader and four or five or ten guys, who are classically trained in this area (and maybe hot rodders to boot) reporting to a manager and assistant Chief Engineer, and a Chief Engineer (the really smart guy) that are all spending a minimum of 40 hours a week for a period of about 4 or 5 years thinking only about this: designing, planning, testing (with the best equipment on the planet), validating, modifying, strategizing, conducting peer reviews and watching it get built.

It always cracks me up when some clown on the internet (not pointed at you, Vettenut) says "...did you think about this? Huh? HUH?". My response is always, sarcastically, "no - all these above people working full time on this for several years surely did not think about something you came up with and blurted out after 10 seconds of distracted thought".



K

 

[AuroraGirl]

Bugs.

It keeps the bugs and small birds out.

Maybe some water. Water ingestion is the bane of the induction engineer's existence.

K

Oh small birds I could really see that. I got bird remnants in my 1990 oldsmobile which had a open snorkel running forward behind the headlight area. i think it was sucked over after it made it throuh the grille wand smacked beside the condensor

 

[Ricko1966]

Cold air being more dense,so you get more oxygen is a hard concept for some people to grasp. I am so with what kieth said in post 28, GM spent millions designing this but your Uncle figured out a way to make it way better after just 3 beers.