Still Super Sloppy Steering

[Jon Karnes]

A lot of people have mentioned the XJ steering shaft swap to get rid of the rag joint. Problem is, I can't find one in a salvage yard near me. they've either been snagged or damaged when wrecked. Is there an aftermarket one that anyone makes that gets rid of the rag joint that anyone would recommend?

 

[1987 GMC Jimmy]

Have you tried Craigslist? The shaft on my Caprice is actually from a Craigslist part out.

 

[Affende]

I read through this entire thread and i didnt see this mentioned anywhere .... buuuuuuut ....

what is the weight rating on your tires? dropping a cummins on a load range C tire will definitely cause steering to feel loose ... been there, done that.

I would guess you need a load range D ... or even a load range E tires. my K3500 454 crew cab with the welder wont take anything except a load range E or F tire.

 

[QBuff02]

Guys, Could the "faster ratio" gearbox mentioned in the first post have anything to do with it..? It was originally designed and built with "x" box and "x" steering geometry and "y" caster and camber.. My question is, if all this work was done but the relationship of one of these components were changed, couldn't one little thing throw everything out of whack? Maybe the toe-in is spot on, but what if the caster/camber is off after throwing the new springs and parts on, maybe it needs a degree or two of shim put between the springs and axle perches? I know years ago I swapped in a high pinion Dana 60 Front in place of the twin traction beam front end on my old '84 F-250 and the angle of the axle was off by just a few degrees and with the 35's on it, you dreaded hitting a bump because the death wobble would start! And you'd have to bear down on the binders and get below 25 for it to quit, but it never did it a lick with the 33's. And now that I'm smarter's and I own an '82 K30 with a big block sitting on 33's that sat for several years before I purchased it, has 85,000 miles in it, and all original components (original enough) I don't think it drives all that bad! Like I never fear for my life running 65-70mph. I think it's something very simple that's being overlooked here. It was mentioned a few times here, you can have all new components, but start with the basics. For example, Like the pic of the rag joint.. That sucker looks brand spanking new compared to the oil soaked, cracking, deteriorated mess of a rag joint on mine.. Lol And I drive mine with one hand on the wheel and no worries all day when I'm in it.! I see it's got a sway bar on it too.. That should help with lane wander. after reading all of this, I can't remember what springs you put on it. I'd have put a one ton rated set of springs on it at a minimum with the engine swap, and in the pic you posted they look like they're not up to snuff by the way they're separating from each other if you ask me. I could throw out suggestions until I'm blue in the face, but I believe it's something simple that's being overlooked..

 

[Honky Kong jr]

Guys, Could the "faster ratio" gearbox mentioned in the first post have anything to do with it..? It was originally designed and built with "x" box and "x" steering geometry and "y" caster and camber.. My question is, if all this work was done but the relationship of one of these components were changed, couldn't one little thing throw everything out of whack? Maybe the toe-in is spot on, but what if the caster/camber is off after throwing the new springs and parts on, maybe it needs a degree or two of shim put between the springs and axle perches? I know years ago I swapped in a high pinion Dana 60 Front in place of the twin traction beam front end on my old '84 F-250 and the angle of the axle was off by just a few degrees and with the 35's on it, you dreaded hitting a bump because the death wobble would start! And you'd have to bear down on the binders and get below 25 for it to quit, but it never did it a lick with the 33's. And now that I'm smarter's and I own an '82 K30 with a big block sitting on 33's that sat for several years before I purchased it, has 85,000 miles in it, and all original components (original enough) I don't think it drives all that bad! Like I never fear for my life running 65-70mph. I think it's something very simple that's being overlooked here. It was mentioned a few times here, you can have all new components, but start with the basics. For example, Like the pic of the rag joint.. That sucker looks brand spanking new compared to the oil soaked, cracking, deteriorated mess of a rag joint on mine.. Lol And I drive mine with one hand on the wheel and no worries all day when I'm in it.! I see it's got a sway bar on it too.. That should help with lane wander. after reading all of this, I can't remember what springs you put on it. I'd have put a one ton rated set of springs on it at a minimum with the engine swap, and in the pic you posted they look like they're not up to snuff by the way they're separating from each other if you ask me. I could throw out suggestions until I'm blue in the face, but I believe it's something simple that's being overlooked..

I quicker ratio could have adverse effects on steering. Especially with oversized tires. It would react quicker when chasing the tires.

 

[Affende]

I read through this entire thread and i didnt see this mentioned anywhere .... buuuuuuut ....

what is the weight rating on your tires? dropping a cummins on a load range C tire will definitely cause steering to feel loose ... been there, done that.

I would guess you need a load range D ... or even a load range E tires. my K3500 454 crew cab with the welder wont take anything except a load range E or F tire.

nevermind ... i see load range E K02s in an early post.

 

[Affende]

A lot of people have mentioned the XJ steering shaft swap to get rid of the rag joint. Problem is, I can't find one in a salvage yard near me. they've either been snagged or damaged when wrecked. Is there an aftermarket one that anyone makes that gets rid of the rag joint that anyone would recommend?

you could buy a new one ... but they are around $100 IIRC

 

[Dutch Rutter]

A lot of people have mentioned the XJ steering shaft swap to get rid of the rag joint. Problem is, I can't find one in a salvage yard near me. they've either been snagged or damaged when wrecked. Is there an aftermarket one that anyone makes that gets rid of the rag joint that anyone would recommend?

They can also be found on Ebay but you will have to make sure that its the correct one. Also they will be a little bit more expensive then finding one at a yard.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Borgesson makes a bolt on joint.

Have you done the troubleshooting steps yet?

 

[Jon Karnes]

Ended up finding one on a 95 model at my local yard. Came in two days later. I went ahead and paid the 20 dollars to have their guy pull it for me. With pulling fee, 35 total. Lot cheaper than eBay. Putting it on today

 

[Jon Karnes]

Guys, Could the "faster ratio" gearbox mentioned in the first post have anything to do with it..? It was originally designed and built with "x" box and "x" steering geometry and "y" caster and camber.. My question is, if all this work was done but the relationship of one of these components were changed, couldn't one little thing throw everything out of whack? Maybe the toe-in is spot on, but what if the caster/camber is off after throwing the new springs and parts on, maybe it needs a degree or two of shim put between the springs and axle perches? I know years ago I swapped in a high pinion Dana 60 Front in place of the twin traction beam front end on my old '84 F-250 and the angle of the axle was off by just a few degrees and with the 35's on it, you dreaded hitting a bump because the death wobble would start! And you'd have to bear down on the binders and get below 25 for it to quit, but it never did it a lick with the 33's. And now that I'm smarter's and I own an '82 K30 with a big block sitting on 33's that sat for several years before I purchased it, has 85,000 miles in it, and all original components (original enough) I don't think it drives all that bad! Like I never fear for my life running 65-70mph. I think it's something very simple that's being overlooked here. It was mentioned a few times here, you can have all new components, but start with the basics. For example, Like the pic of the rag joint.. That sucker looks brand spanking new compared to the oil soaked, cracking, deteriorated mess of a rag joint on mine.. Lol And I drive mine with one hand on the wheel and no worries all day when I'm in it.! I see it's got a sway bar on it too.. That should help with lane wander. after reading all of this, I can't remember what springs you put on it. I'd have put a one ton rated set of springs on it at a minimum with the engine swap, and in the pic you posted they look like they're not up to snuff by the way they're separating from each other if you ask me. I could throw out suggestions until I'm blue in the face, but I believe it's something simple that's being overlooked..

Long winded reply, sorry. Springs and tires were definitely a part of it, but not bc they were separating or too weak. The separation is spacers. They were originally supposed to be HD springs rated at 1900 a piece. Front axle weight is 3400. So they were good. Actually too good. Turns out the thing was dramatically over sprung and the shocks too short. Specs on the spring pack we’re 1 15/16 thick. Mine were 2 3/4 thick without the spacers. The spring rate tested at over 1400 pounds per inch!. To put in perspective, a really stiff set is 485 pounds per inch. Daaaaaaaaamn!!!!!

So they pulled a leaf from all four corners and re arched them. Even added an inch to make sure those new tires never rubbed. When they did that, the shocks would no longer connect. Turns out they only had a half inch of play. Got to drive through town with no shocks to a different shop afterwards, fuuuun. Put in a set of appropriate length Bilstein 5100s and viola. My ride improved 10000% and sense the suspension is working appropriately, I lost a lot of the loose steering. The new K02s were inflated to 80 PSI as well. So I dropped those to 70 and that helped a bit as well. Gonna drop that to 55 for everyday driving and see if that improves it even more and monitor tire wear as well to make sure it’s not too low.

Now to put on this XJ shaft and see if that takes care of the rest of the looseness. If not, I’ll start with changing out any bushings and bearings in the column. If that doesn’t do it, I’m gonna take out the faster rate steering box

 

[Snoots]

Got to drive through town with no shocks to a different shop afterwards, fuuuun.

Must've been like driving a Buick.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Long winded reply, sorry. Springs and tires were definitely a part of it, but not bc they were separating or too weak. The separation is spacers. They were originally supposed to be HD springs rated at 1900 a piece. Front axle weight is 3400. So they were good. Actually too good. Turns out the thing was dramatically over sprung and the shocks too short. Specs on the spring pack we’re 1 15/16 thick. Mine were 2 3/4 thick without the spacers. The spring rate tested at over 1400 pounds per inch!. To put in perspective, a really stiff set is 485 pounds per inch. Daaaaaaaaamn!!!!!

So they pulled a leaf from all four corners and re arched them. Even added an inch to make sure those new tires never rubbed. When they did that, the shocks would no longer connect. Turns out they only had a half inch of play. Got to drive through town with no shocks to a different shop afterwards, fuuuun. Put in a set of appropriate length Bilstein 5100s and viola. My ride improved 10000% and sense the suspension is working appropriately, I lost a lot of the loose steering. The new K02s were inflated to 80 PSI as well. So I dropped those to 70 and that helped a bit as well. Gonna drop that to 55 for everyday driving and see if that improves it even more and monitor tire wear as well to make sure it’s not too low.

Now to put on this XJ shaft and see if that takes care of the rest of the looseness. If not, I’ll start with changing out any bushings and bearings in the column. If that doesn’t do it, I’m gonna take out the faster rate steering box

Good grief...