Springs vs Blocks

[HotRodPC]

I am backing up a bit here now. After RE reading the thread, I am seeing, ALL 1 ton, regardless of C&C, SRW or DRW are 40 1/2? I was confused because I did go to the 14B FF Bible and it also mentions in 14bolt Specs Table, "Spring Perch Span and Width
(inches) (1980 1 Ton 4x4, SRW, non Cab and Chasis) 42.5" x 2.5" " Now reading further down in Notes, I see, " 1-tons feature 40.5" perch spacing - whether C&C or pickup, whether SRW or DRW. 3/4-ton is 42.5" spacing. Kinda throws a wrench into my K10 plans. Maybe not so bad though. I just passed up 2 trucks I could have bought, both mid 70's 3/4 ton rolling chassis with D44 and 14b FF axles. Guess I should bought 1 of them. I passed cuz I have a 14b FF out of a 1 ton, and I have the CUCV 14b FF which is also going to be 1 ton. So now, it appears, neither of these rear ends I have will fit my K10 without mods. Rather than "Muddy Up" (No Pun Intended) this Springs Vs Block thread, someone who knows more details about the 14b FF oughta get us a thread going on the differant 14b FF fitaments. HINT HINT HINT. Also, I notice a differance being mentioned in Cast or Stamped Perches. I think I recognize the differance in the perch type since the CUCV has differant looking perches than the 1 ton axle I have, but which is stamped and which is cast? Is the squared off perches the Cast and he rounded off one the stamped, or vice versa?

 

[crazy4offroad]

I posted a pic of my cast perch on here somewhere. Main difference is it has the centering hole casted with supports, and offers no way to re-drill the centering hole because there's no material there, just a void. My 1/2 ton 12-bolt has stamped perches. The spring surface is one flat piece of stamped heavy steel with the centering hole, which would allow you to re-drill the centering hole if you wanted.

I had always heard the 1-ton 14b was 40.5" center to center. Even looking on ebay i see ads mentioning that they are all 40.5". Someone on here said otherwise and that's the first I had ever heard different. Not saying they're wrong, but I would take a tape measure to be sure. Also some of the DRW 14b's are more narrow WMS to WMS (Wheel Mounting Surface). I think a SRW is closer to the width of a 12 or 10 bolt, at around 69". Hope this helps a little.

 

[HotRodPC]

Yeah, I was thinking all was good cuz I measured the perches on the CUCV rear axle and the 1 ton axle and they were the same, except one is cast and one is stamped. Well duh, both are 1 tons !!! So I'll need to measure the 3/4 C20 rear end and see what I come up with. What I might end up doing is putting and 8 Lug 9.5in Semi Float 14b on my C20 that I have, and use that 14B FF in that 3/4 for the K10. We'll see. That C20 is kind of a wussy wagon. Stock 454 and Turbo 400, so that's not likley to hurt a 14b Semi Float, and if it does, so what. I break a 14B Semi Float, its going in the scrap pile. I won't spend a dime on one of those, unless of course its to upgrade a half ton and have 5 or 6 lug axles drilled for it, but really, I don't see myself doing that either. My other 2 C20's that are to be combined to make 1 good truck, both have 14b Semi Floats in them, and both are 4.10 peg leggers.

 

[HotRodPC]

The main problem I have with body lifts besides not trusting them is the fact that when you put one on, you're not doing anything to strengthen or upgrade the suspension in any way. Then when you throw on bigger tires and beat the snot out of the truck, you're bound to get some carnage involved. So in the end, you're running, say, 35's on stock equipment.

I think if I were looking for 1" or 2" extra lift to clear bigger tires, I'd go with an add-a-leaf or a zero rate instead of lifting the body off the frame.

That's kinda what I thought about it too, or even cut the wheel wells to gain clearance. But, think many people use the body lift for Mall Crawlers to look "COOL" rather than be functional. I'd sure like to avoid body lift whenever possible, and avoid other problems and fabbing like extending shifter linkage, brake lines etc.

 

[HotRodPC]

So, now that we muddied up the Spring Vs Block thread with 14b FF perch width, and I got all freaked out thinking my Full Floaters aren't going to work in my projects, I measured them today. Either I have 3/4 ton Full Floaters, which I helped pull the CUCV rearend out of the truck, and that is considered a 1 ton chassis even though Military calls it a 1 1/4 ton, or SRW 1 ton are same as 3/4 and 1/2 ton. Not sure which, but I measured center to center of each perch on both my Full Floaters that I was told was 1 ton the one from the CUCV, and they were 42 1/2 inch wide. To make sure I was measureing properly, I also measured a 10 bolt perches from a 1/2 ton I just pulled, and it also is 42 1/2 inch perch center hole to perch center hole. I do not have a rear end at all that was 40 1/2 center perch to center perch. Are we sure the 40 1/2 isn't just for Dually Rear Ends??? Or, do I just have 3/4 ton Rear Ends? And does a CUCV maybe use 3/4 perch spacing?

 

[HotRodPC]

BTW, let me add, I am not saying whoever is wrong. It may just be that I have 3/4 rear ends, and CUCV does use 3/4 spacing. Nevertheless, I am happy my plans can continue, cuz whatever is whatever, my 2 Full Floaters are the same perch spacing as this 10 bolt 1/2 ton rear end, which means they'll fit my K10 and my C20 that currently has Semi Float 14b whcih was the intended use for the other rear end. Of all 4 of my projects, all 4 will have 14b Full Floaters.

 

[crazy4offroad]

It could be the issue of SRW vs DRW. One way to tell if it is 3/4 ton vs 1 ton, 3/4 ton has stake-on drums, 1 ton has slip-on drums. Stake-on goes on behind the flange with the wheel studs holding it on. To replace the brake shoes for stake-on you have to pull the axle shaft and remove the whole hub (not that difficult to do really). Also dont forget to count the number of ribs, aka webbing on the pumpkin. If it has only 4 it is a 3/4 ton.

 

[HotRodPC]

Thanks for cleaning that up C4. Now I do feel much better. The axle I was told was a 1 ton has stake ons, so that means it is a 3/4 ton axle then and I figured out its not a 1 ton 10 pack springs either. Its gotta be aftermarket springs cuz there are 12 springs counting the Zero Rate and Factory GM only went to 10 that I am aware of, and thats for HD 1 Ton. The other CUCV axle, and I swear its a CUCV axle, I helped pull it, and its 4.56 and Detroit Locker also, has a disk brake conversion on it, so unless its been swapped out before, CUCV uses 3/4 ton axle.

 

[crazy4offroad]

Dont forget to count the ribs on the pumpkin. The outer hubs/drums/brake backing plates are swappable between 14bolts, the number of ribs would really tell if it is the 1 ton version.

 

[HotRodPC]

So do I understand right then, this pic here shows 4 ribs on this pumpkin??? Do you know the rib count on the units? 4 = ? How many does a 1 ton have? My CUCV rear end also has 4 ribs.

 

[bucket]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, We've got a BUNCH of misinformation going on here.

ALL 1tons have the 40.5 perch spacing... ALL OF THEM.
Everything else is 42.5 EXCEPT for the 2wd 3/4 ton Crew Cab.

The only 14bolts in the square body years with slip-on drums were the 14bolt semi-floater. All FF's were pinned to the hub with the studs.

Furthermore, things get swapped over the years. That axle pictured is from a 3/4 ton (shock mounts are the dead giveaway), and it is NOT original to that CUCV. Were the spring hangers riveted or bolted to the frame of that truck?

 

[HotRodPC]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, We've got a BUNCH of misinformation going on here.

ALL 1tons have the 40.5 perch spacing... ALL OF THEM.
Everything else is 42.5 EXCEPT for the 2wd 3/4 ton Crew Cab.

The only 14bolts in the square body years with slip-on drums were the 14bolt semi-floater. All FF's were pinned to the hub with the studs.

Furthermore, things get swapped over the years. That axle pictured is from a 3/4 ton (shock mounts are the dead giveaway), and it is NOT original to that CUCV. Were the spring hangers riveted or bolted to the frame of that truck?

Springs hangers were riveted to the best of my recallection. I'd have sure noticed if they were bolted, cuz the bed was off the truck. Frame and Cab was all that was left, but come to think of it now, it had to be a 3/4 ton frame, cuz isn't the K30 frame taller, meaning the frame rails from front to back and deeper right?
So then it appears both of my 14FF were from 3/4 tons then, not 1 tons or CUCV as I was told? Its 4.56 gears and a Detroit Locker I know for fact. Who knows maybe someone transfered the carrier from a CUCV rear end. At any rate, if 40.5 is the spacing for ALL 1 tons, and its my understanding Crew Cab 3/4 ton is a 1 ton frame, (might as well be a 1 ton), so I was lied to about these Full Floaters I got, which this time is great because the intentions are to use these in a C20 truck, and a K10 to K20 conversion and they should fit just fine being they have the 42.5 spacing and is the same spacing as the 5 lug 10 bolt rear axle I am selling. It works out good for me, but by all means, yes, lets get our info correct for the purpose of an accurate forum. Now, can anyone explain whats the news on the ribs? I posted a pic with blue arrows and #'s. Is that what is reffered to as the ribs on the pumpkin??? There appears to be 4 ribs on these FF's I have. How many does a 1 ton have? Anyone got a pic to post of a 1 ton FF pumpkin?

 

[crazy4offroad]

14 bolt full floater from a 1 ton on the bottom, you can see the extra ribs on top. Also note the massive SLIP-ON DRUMS...

You must be registered for see images

It is NOT a semi-floater because of the axleshaft hub sticking out of the end. Semi-floaters have axleshafts like a 12-bolt except with 8 lugs made on the wheel flange. The important thing to remember about these axles is YOUR MILEAGE (results/parts) MAY VARY. Over the years these trucks came with all kinds of different parts. Just because it has 42.5" spring perches, stake on drums and fewer ribs on the pumpkin doesnt mean it is any weaker than the 1 ton variant. They are all hellacious pigs of heavy American iron.

 

[HotRodPC]

Cool, thanks for the pics, so mine aren't like that. They are obviously 3/4 ton axles. Which is actually good news.
Oh no doubt, I'd take any variant of the 14b FF, so if anyone has one with only 4 ribs and don't what that wussy thing, LMAO, I'll gladly take it from you. I am sure its been done, but I have never known anyone personally who broke a 14b FF in any flavor.

 

[nvrenuf]

First, let me say I didn't read this whole thread but I did see something I wanted to clear up - the pumpkin ribbing.

The difference in ribbing between the housings in post #55 & 58 is a year model difference, not a K20 vs K30 thing. The housing with the extra ribbing (see post #58) is the updated housing GM started using in '88. Any 14 bolt FF from '87 or earlier is the smoother version (see post #55).

Just to muddy up the waters a little more, some folks think all '88+ 14 bolts with extra ribbing have slip off drums but that's not true - my original 91 V3500 had a ribbed housing but pinned drums. As best I can tell it depends on the original body style; square bodies get pinned drums and NBS trucks have slip ons.

Hope I was able to further confuse the subject.