Planning summer small block build

[Obwonkonobe]

You should go up to atleat a 5.7 rod, one of the reason the 400 has such a bad rep is the short stroke puts a lot of side load on the cylinder walls, longer rods help reduce this. Problem with 6.0 rods is dont you have to buy a smaller than normal base circle cam adding additional cost?

for the cost of checking the vortec heads, valve job and screw in studs you will be about the cost of a new set of aftermarket vortec heads. I just swapped my truck to vortecs and a cam..wish I had just put the money in my 454 instead. Prices as I encoutered

vortec heads $100
needing addition non cracked head $35
magna flux, valve job, new seals, springs & setup $400
Used intake manifold $100
gaskets $75
cam & lifters $120
springs again because machine shop ones broke. $30
timing chain $30

And you will need new rings, bearings, seals, hone... either save and do it right or dont do it at all.

You make a really good point there about cost. Il probably end up doing vortecs, a 5.7 rod (or 6 but I don't want to get fancy with the cam). But that's why im starting it now rather than when the 350 goes out. What should a machine shop charge for a basic refresh on a block? I've never had to use one before. Does anyone know of a good one in Phoenix az?

 

[436'd skylark]

I do believe you will have to use those link bars so it doesn't turn on the cam lobe. Keep in mind that if you do cam it you may want to look at a higher stall converter.

X2
I found some eBay heads, yes Ebay. before you say you cant buy good quality parts from there hear me out, they are $310 they have a 2.02 int and a 1.6 ext. they are not assembled so you go buy the springs, retainers, guides, valves, push rod etc and you can have some really nice heads. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ALUMINU...693638?hash=item4b324164c6:g:bQkAAOSwY~1aRWPF I have heard good things. No guarantee just what I have heard.my cam suggestions:

1. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=164&sb=2 - It's a mild cam and does sound too lopey but delivers a lot of power down low.
   xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
2. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=155&sb=2 - Slightly more mild but should give slight power increase
3. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=156&sb=2 - Should sound like number 1, has little more lift.
4. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=95&sb=2 - It's a flat tappet but is still really good.
   xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

The problem is you can't just throw the heads together and call it good. The seats need to be cut to the valves and the guides have to be installed properly first. Then the valve heights need to be set and then the springs need dialed in.. your adding at least a grand in parts and machine labor.. that's no deal.

Regarding the 6" rods and small base circle cam i think that relies heavily on the rod choice. I don't think there is much difference in price between the two cams.

 

[4WDKC]

You make a really good point there about cost. Il probably end up doing vortecs, a 5.7 rod (or 6 but I don't want to get fancy with the cam). But that's why im starting it now rather than when the 350 goes out. What should a machine shop charge for a basic refresh on a block? I've never had to use one before. Does anyone know of a good one in Phoenix az?

I think you';re not understanding what I am telling you, with the cylinder wear will probably require a bore, which means new pistons, putting the 5.5 rods back in doesnt make sense so now youre looking at rods too, chances are crank needs to be turned thats $150+ or $200ish for a new scat crank. It snowballs quickly so plan it and do it right instead of "for now"

 

[Iowan]

The problem is you can't just throw the heads together and call it good. The seats need to be cut to the valves and the guides have to be installed properly first. Then the valve heights need to be set and then the springs need dialed in.. your adding at least a grand in parts and machine labor.. that's no deal.

Regarding the 6" rods and small base circle cam i think that relies heavily on the rod choice. I don't think there is much difference in price between the two cams.

That is a good point and I stand corrected. Thank you for explaining since I was thinking of doing that and never took the total cost into account.

 

[Obwonkonobe]

I think you';re not understanding what I am telling you, with the cylinder wear will probably require a bore, which means new pistons, putting the 5.5 rods back in doesnt make sense so now youre looking at rods too, chances are crank needs to be turned thats $150+ or $200ish for a new scat crank. It snowballs quickly so plan it and do it right instead of "for now"

I get that. What are some good companies to look at for bearings and such? I figure now il just save all the money I can over summer and start stock pilling basics like bearings and gaskets while I search for a block

 

[Obwonkonobe]

I do believe you will have to use those link bars so it doesn't turn on the cam lobe. Keep in mind that if you do cam it you may want to look at a higher stall converter.

X2
I found some eBay heads, yes Ebay. before you say you cant buy good quality parts from there hear me out, they are $310 they have a 2.02 int and a 1.6 ext. they are not assembled so you go buy the springs, retainers, guides, valves, push rod etc and you can have some really nice heads. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-ALUMINU...693638?hash=item4b324164c6:g:bQkAAOSwY~1aRWPF I have heard good things. No guarantee just what I have heard.my cam suggestions:

1. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=164&sb=2 - It's a mild cam and does sound too lopey but delivers a lot of power down low.
   xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
2. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=155&sb=2 - Slightly more mild but should give slight power increase
3. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=156&sb=2 - Should sound like number 1, has little more lift.
4. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=95&sb=2 - It's a flat tappet but is still really good.
   xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I love the cam suggestions, defiantly some good stuff to look into, I probably won't go with anything over .45 lift, @4WDKC makes a good point about the cost to build a set of heads from scratch, so il probably just keep an eye out for some decent vortecs for now

 

[4WDKC]

I love the cam suggestions, defiantly some good stuff to look into, I probably won't go with anything over .45 lift, @4WDKC makes a good point about the cost to build a set of heads from scratch, so il probably just keep an eye out for some decent vortecs for now

Heres what I was told when looking for a cam for a 400... The rpm ranges you see listed in the spec are based on 350 ci, a larger cu makes the cam milder so when looking at the rpm ranges subtract 500 rpm for the 400 and that will be your rpm band. I put a 214/224 @.050 duration cam in my truck with a 350, my 406 has a 234/244 @.050 in the vette and it pulls nice all the way to 6k rpm but it has a 3k stall and is lighter than these trucks.

 

[Obwonkonobe]

Heres what I was told when looking for a cam for a 400... The rpm ranges you see listed in the spec are based on 350 ci, a larger cu makes the cam milder so when looking at the rpm ranges subtract 500 rpm for the 400 and that will be your rpm band. I put a 214/224 @.050 duration cam in my truck with a 350, my 406 has a 234/244 @.050 in the vette and it pulls nice all the way to 6k rpm but it has a 3k stall and is lighter than these trucks.

That's great advice thank you, would you recommend running a stall in a daily c10? Ive never played around with cams and stall converters, my stock converter in my 700r4 is a 1400 stocker

 

[4WDKC]

That's great advice thank you, would you recommend running a stall in a daily c10? Ive never played around with cams and stall converters, my stock converter in my 700r4 is a 1400 stocker

It can be done, I dont like it. It makes mileage go down, trans gets warm in traffic so then you have to find a way to make sure it stays cool on the hottest of days while in traffic and AC blowing.

 

[Obwonkonobe]

It can be done, I dont like it. It makes mileage go down, trans gets warm in traffic so then you have to find a way to make sure it stays cool on the hottest of days while in traffic and AC blowing.

Yikes, yea lol that sounds a bit counter productive to 75% of the work I've done to the truck

 

[4WDKC]

Yikes, yea lol that sounds a bit counter productive to 75% of the work I've done to the truck

My trans temp has gotten to 200 while sitting in traffic in the vette and while its not cooking the trans it shortens fluid and possibly trans life. Should this one ever die I'm going 5 speed in the car.

 

[Obwonkonobe]

My trans temp has gotten to 200 while sitting in traffic in the vette and while its not cooking the trans it shortens fluid and possibly trans life. Should this one ever die I'm going 5 speed in the car.

That sounds fun. I just did a compression calculator assuming stock bore and stroke, 64cc vortecs, 12.5cc dish pistons, and a .041 compressed gasket thickness and il be squeezing 10.6! Is there any way I could bump it down a point? Id be open to running different heads with larger 76cc chambers, id get to keep my intake too. Are there any good 76cc castings that i could look for?

 

[436'd skylark]

You are not figuring the deck height in your calculations. The pistons are probably .030 in the hole.

 

[Obwonkonobe]

You are not figuring the deck height in your calculations. The pistons are probably .030 in the hole.

I figured I'd bring it to 0 deck to get it flat, could I get away without it?

 

[4WDKC]

I figured I'd bring it to 0 deck to get it flat, could I get away without it?

mine is 14 cc dish, 63cc heads .005 in the hole and .041 gasket.. it can be done but that is not a home built engine