Mechanical fuel pump beef/info rant

[squarelyfe]

So my info rant goes like this..

At some point you will have to replace your mechanical fuel pump if not using an electric fuel pump. Some of you know this story, but others will learn something here. In general carburetors typically don't like more than 5 to 6 PSI. They aren't fuel injected needing 40-50+ psi. Most rebuilders and carburetor companies will tell you this as well. It's not to say that you can't run more PSI but in general the number is lower for a reason. Anyone thinking about buying a cheap pump will want to pay attention. If you have ever had fuel come out of the top of your carburetor or dump too much without being a leaking well plugs problem, past the upper gasket it's likely either your float was set too high, you had a sticking float OR you had TOO much fuel psi blowing the needle/seat open allowing fuel to continue into the bowl and then over.

A while back after buying a cheap pump at O'Rileys I found this out the hard way. I didn't know it but in the past years the company AIRTEX got a really bad reputation and eventually sold they company to someone else. They are put together in China with zero fuks given. Why? Probably because they didn't give a crap what batch of springs they threw in their pumps and weren't quality controlled their pumps in turn would put out 9 to 12 PSI do some searching around the internet and you'll read the same story many times told in different versions. So you realize that the spring is what's internally regulating the PSI. Back in the day AC Delco was a genuine quality parts line. That's when you would get a pump that was embossed AC on the side of the body and they made parts that would last for years.

I know what you're thinking already..how is it that GM sold engines without fuel pressure regulators just using mechanical pumps and you never heard anything until now. Well.. apparently the bean counters were willing to overlook something long enough until they had enough complaints to fix the issue..untill the later pumps came along..

Fast forward to the world of SBC cheaper fuel pumps.. There is no more AC Delco making pumps. Also found this out the hard way. Getting to the heart of this post.. my BEEF is with companies branding there names onto Airtex pumps!

I tried to buy a shiny eBay chrome pump. Seller says 6 psi but later states 8 psi-no thank you! You would still need a part for your part meaning at 8+ psi you likely need a fuel pressure regulator!


Next I moved onto "screw this I'm getting an AC DELCO" ultra fail... Apparently AC Delco stopped making or having quality parts built. That's right I went to AutoZone bought an AC Delco fuel pump and in the box with the paperwork says Airtex and on the bottom of the pump has the "A". Nope again not running effing Airtex. I know some will say they worked for them and they will but they don't last or just fail.


After multiple pumps I called a local parts supplier who told me that they had a Delphi pump maker of new GM parts at 5 PSI great I said. Then when I got home I pulled it out of the box and noticed the A on the bottom of it! My curiosity got the best of me and decided to look around the internet about this company. I found another website and guys were talking about how they got Delphi pumps with Airtex paperwork in the box! At this point I'm really pissed off, my grandfather worked for general motors for 40 plus years and he was one of the head mechanics on the assembly line at the tarrytown plant in New York. I've had GM running
my veins and always been told that AC Delco made great parts as I've known them to. Anyhow I decided to pull the paperwork out of the Delphi box and to my surprise it didn't have the Airtex paperwork it just read Delphi from one of the states so I just decided to install it even though it has the A on the bottom of it which makes me very suspicious. I'd like to believe that they knew it was going on and talked to airtex about this to make a slightly better quality actually putting out what they say it does at 5 PSI so far so good we'll see. It's pretty common for people to run fuel pressure regulators. I have a clean engine bay and I bought a nice new hard line from the mechanical pump to the quadrajet, I didn't want to have to cut a brand new Hardline to run one of those cheap ass fuel pressure regulators that sits on top of the engine that have a bad rap. I've run them before and had one fail with true psi. If you read around the internet they're not accurate and the numbers don't even represent the actual PSI. I just think it's sad that all these companies are buying cheap pumps and branding their name on to the boxes and you end up paying more like in the case of the AC Delco and AutoZone was $45 the guy had said oh that's one of the last ones I think they're discontinued no crap they're discontinued for a reason I come to find out so do your homework otherwise you're looking at $140 Holley or Edelbrock mechanical pump which seems crazy or on early models you may need another return line to your gas tank to try to relieve some pressure if that helps. I believe this is how GM corrected the overpressure on mechanical pumps in later years but don't quote me on that.

Here are a few photos showing the pump I just bought that was branded AC Delco with Airtex pump in the box and no it wasn't a return I actually called the Delco website number because they had a part on there about counterfeit parts. She said it looks like Delco may have contracted with Airtex, I was shocked and pissed!

 

[squarelyfe]

Here is the Airtex rebranded ACDelco

 

[Ellie Niner]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm pretty aware of the Airtex name from dealing with an old Carter mechanical pump on my 1962 Studebaker. The Airtex name means "pure sh¡t" for those too, with some of the pump arms not even being shaped right... so they won't make contact with the camshaft eccentric. Fortunately, you can disassemble the Carter pump and rebuild it, which is what I will do when the time comes.

One of the reasons I bought my Chevy truck over 20 years ago, was that I was planning on driving it forever, and knew parts would always be available... I never imagined that I'd have to wade through an ocean of third world garbage posing as real parts, but here we are in 2021 getting shafted by parts houses full of two bit trinkets... and as you showed, not always at two bit prices.

And of course, ACDelco as we know it ceased function back in the... late 1990's?, being spun off into Delphi with only the ACDelco name living on to be plastered on a range of different products. I've spotted a Delco CS130 alternator in a wrecking yard wearing a reman decal proclaiming "Bosch". Yeah. Bosch didn't make Delco alternators; eat my shorts! These cynical exercises of branding something with a total bullsh¡t name aren't new, though it seems like getting the exact same trashy part in different colored packaging is a bit more recent phenomenon. I guess it'd be a good idea to start stocking a few known good parts when you can find them. That's what I did with sealed beam headlights after seeing what was coming out of China for those... gahhbage! No more real (USA, at least) ACDelco spark plugs, either.

 

[Grit dog]

The Airtex name means "pure sh¡t"

It means pure **** in electric pumps too. I replaced the failed OE efi pump in our boat with an Airtex, few years ago. It runs the boat fine, verified it's putting out 50psi or whatever even at full throttle. But it sounds like a bag of marbles being rolled around and 3 out of 4 times, requires a 2nd prime cycle to fire the engine. (This is on a pristine under 400 hours Chevy 350, aint no issues with the engine, injectors, etc.)

But that is typical of most electro or mechanical replacement parts in recent years, IMO. I've had a few instances with steering pumps, alternators, hell, even radiators that required multiple replacements of the same part in short order.
Personal record is 4 alternators before even leaving the Napa parking lot!
Well, it was actually only 3, as that's all they had and the 4th one was actually the first one again, that was functional, but had to borrow a drill and bit from the Napa to bore out one of the mounting holes as the ear was smashed and it flattened the hole! Not much else for options 4 hours from home, in Canada at 3pm on a Sunday, holding a $300 "NAPA REMAN" alternator that I'd literally just replaced about 2 months earlier, on a weekend trip, in Canada!

Newer vehicles, I generally just suck it up and buy OEM parts from a dealer or online dealer partshouse. Things like alternators or starters, given the opportunity, I'll take the OEM one to be rebuilt properly.

 

[Grumpy]

As for the fuel pump, I spent a few extra bucks and purchased a fuel pressure regulator with a third bypass line. I have my fuel pressure gauge right where the two lines separate to the front and rear fuel bowls (I am using a Holley 680) and the bypass line from the regulator goes to my bypass line back to tank (my truck is a 1985 originally carbureted and is equipped with a return to tank from factory.)

For the price of some extra line, a few more clamps, regulator and a quality pressure gauge, I can't stress enough how important this setup is particularly when setting up or diagnosing. A marked drop in pressure is a sure indication of a plugged fuel filter, which interestingly will be 95% of all the issues you will run into with a carbureted setup.

If the Chinesium parts have excess pressure, the regulator will take care of it until we can start buying parts made locally, the way it should have stayed.
I hope every last manufacturer CEO who moved their factories offshore all die in vehicle accidents caused by inferior parts from their own company.

 

[Backfoot100]

It means pure **** in electric pumps too. I replaced the failed OE efi pump in our boat with an Airtex, few years ago. It runs the boat fine, verified it's putting out 50psi or whatever even at full throttle. But it sounds like a bag of marbles being rolled around and 3 out of 4 times, requires a 2nd prime cycle to fire the engine. (This is on a pristine under 400 hours Chevy 350, aint no issues with the engine, injectors, etc.)

But that is typical of most electro or mechanical replacement parts in recent years, IMO.

Couldn't agree more. I built a 383 stroker for my boat. Rebuilt my Holley when I did the engine. The boat was out of commission for three years and I reused the factory fuel pump (mechanical) which immediately failed after running for about 15 minutes.
So I had heard all these same horror stories of new fuel pumps putting out too much pressure from other members of a Correctcraft forum.
I figured if I had a Holley carb I would be safe with a Holley fuel pump, right. I mean Holley is clear that they want 5-6 PSI and no more.
So I get a nice polished marine pump from Holley and it immediately keeps the float needle/seat open from too much pressure. I put a gauge on it and its putting out a little over 9 PSI. WTF???????
So I do like everyone else and get a regulator and a gauge plumbed in and mounted on one of the heads. Looks real nice and works perfectly for the last 300 hrs.
Still sucks that you have to go through that now.

 

[Turbo4whl]

I hope every last manufacturer CEO who moved their factories offshore all die in vehicle accidents caused by inferior parts from their own company.

Can we vote on this??? ^

You have my vote!

 

[Turbo4whl]

Airtex fuel pumps, wow now there's a product!

1/3 the cost of a real pump, and the odds are about 1 in 3 you will get a good one. Working on a utility fleet as I do, someone is always looking to save money. Best part is changing the pumps the second or third time, the bolts aren't rusty.

I wonder if the bean counters remember to add in the cost of the 3 rollback trips back to the shop?

 

[Grumpy]

Airtex fuel pumps, wow now there's a product!

1/3 the cost of a real pump, and the odds are about 1 in 3 you will get a good one. Working on a utility fleet as I do, someone is always looking to save money. Best part is changing the pumps the second or third time, the bolts aren't rusty.

I wonder if the bean counters remember to add in the cost of the 3 rollback trips back to the shop?

Bean counters are masters at manipulating numbers to suit their will, and prone to lengthy bouts of questionable intellectual capacity. I had one inform me mechanics were considered an expense and the company could third-party all the work. Lucky for me, one of the owners overheard the conversation, and interjected, "Yes, true. Then the company is on someone else's schedule, paying unreasonably high costs for work required after hours and subject to being back-burnered if a higher-paying customer walks in. Besides, accounting can be third-partied as well."

 

[Dooley]

This has been my "go to" mechanical fuel pump for many years.

Carter M4530 Carter Muscle Car Mechanical Fuel Pumps | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Carter Muscle Car Mechanical Fuel Pumps with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Fuel Pumps at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[SirRobyn0]

Sorry I didn't see this thread sooner, but I'm still going to throw in my 2 cents. It's not just in fuel pumps. That crap where there is one manufacture (or only a few) and boxes are rebranded is all over in automotive. If you do a search from fan clutch debacle and my screen name you can read all about how Hayden makes nearly all readily available fan clutches duralast, murray, Napa just to name a few. Hayden went from a USA built quality product, to Mexico, now to, I think Chinese, but I'd have to check, no long on this continent. I went though 3 or 4 rebranded hayden units before popping for a still USA made A/C delco unit at 3X the price. Spectra is all over the map, in what they sell under there name. Some of their stuff is good quality rebranded stuff, some is not. Doesn't help that so many parts suppliers have "house brand parts" A lot of people know NAPA filters are wix, so is microgaurd. It's terrible.... Hard to tell what your going to get anymore.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Sorry I didn't see this thread sooner, but I'm still going to throw in my 2 cents. It's not just in fuel pumps. That crap where there is one manufacture (or only a few) and boxes are rebranded is all over in automotive. If you do a search from fan clutch debacle and my screen name you can read all about how Hayden makes nearly all readily available fan clutches duralast, murray, Napa just to name a few. Hayden went from a USA built quality product, to Mexico, now to, I think Chinese, but I'd have to check, no long on this continent. I went though 3 or 4 rebranded hayden units before popping for a still USA made A/C delco unit at 3X the price. Spectra is all over the map, in what they sell under there name. Some of their stuff is good quality rebranded stuff, some is not. Doesn't help that so many parts suppliers have "house brand parts" A lot of people know NAPA filters are wix, so is microgaurd. It's terrible.... Hard to tell what your going to get anymore.

especially because said names are not the end-all, they have Lines/Tiers, which also do not have end-all-be-all...

My brand new ford 3g alternator weith less than 6k on it miles wise, is literally pulling apart.. The case is either yanking the threads off the body screws holding it together or they are backing out when its mounted as intended and etc.

How much you wanna bet these screws are OK, the housing is made from cheap castings or whatever they do, and its just so soft the power of the crank rotating the belt with ford factory wrap is pulling the whole shaft and trying to yank the rear from the front because of it.

Cant even blame ford for that one, its a DB or something brand new with non-ford parts.

But.

GO FORDER.

And all else it seems with parts...
I may have an old 350 3 port pump or 2 laying about, I should go check them to see if carter or whatever maybe can be rebuilt.

Bean counters are masters at manipulating numbers to suit their will, and prone to lengthy bouts of questionable intellectual capacity. I had one inform me mechanics were considered an expense and the company could third-party all the work. Lucky for me, one of the owners overheard the conversation, and interjected, "Yes, true. Then the company is on someone else's schedule, paying unreasonably high costs for work required after hours and subject to being back-burnered if a higher-paying customer walks in. Besides, accounting can be third-partied as well."

That owner wouldnt last long if the company is remotely big. That is direct attack on the quarterly savings they had in store to meet yet again a record quarter, and when it doesnt happen because that isnt possible, they will just have to cut something else to get the short term gain and then flap around again when that turns south.

Then when its running on fumes, bail out the doors and declare bankruptcy and get government welfare somehow in that exchange.

Thank god its not THAT kind of company and thank god for him

I know the company I used to work for outsourced the mechanic work on their spotter trucks to a not-in-town even garage. not only ddo they have to wait for that business to have time for that repairing, the people who drive them daily arent able to be involved with the diagnostics because if you drive a truck for work in the yard every day, youre gonna know how it ******* works and what it does/what it shouldnt do. And things like nonworking lights even written on the paperwork it will get returned to breakdown again and the light still didnt work LOL.

And a company mechanic working on the same premises or nearby would have a lot more accountability to the guys using them and himself because the more something is just fixed period, it is in your stall less and you have happy coworkers. based on their size I would say 2 people would have done that previously just to cover more hours of the day like for the various shifts. if not maybe a couple at night to do things like routine maintanence which im sure they just dont bother with on large diesel powered trucks that move 90k of birds or oogles of thousands pounds of products with air brakes and hydraulics for the coupler thing. When ever has a hydraulic hose inconveniently met its match, especially the ones that are food grade hydraulic oil inside them, from old past-due fluid or filters needing changed etc (For a small selection of them, the rest would be normal)

 

[SirRobyn0]

especially because said names are not the end-all, they have Lines/Tiers, which also do not have end-all-be-all...

My brand new ford 3g alternator weith less than 6k on it miles wise, is literally pulling apart.. The case is either yanking the threads off the body screws holding it together or they are backing out when its mounted as intended and etc.

How much you wanna bet these screws are OK, the housing is made from cheap castings or whatever they do, and its just so soft the power of the crank rotating the belt with ford factory wrap is pulling the whole shaft and trying to yank the rear from the front because of it.

Cant even blame ford for that one, its a DB or something brand new with non-ford parts.

But.

GO FORDER.

And all else it seems with parts...
I may have an old 350 3 port pump or 2 laying about, I should go check them to see if carter or whatever maybe can be rebuilt.

That owner wouldnt last long if the company is remotely big. That is direct attack on the quarterly savings they had in store to meet yet again a record quarter, and when it doesnt happen because that isnt possible, they will just have to cut something else to get the short term gain and then flap around again when that turns south.

Then when its running on fumes, bail out the doors and declare bankruptcy and get government welfare somehow in that exchange.

Thank god its not THAT kind of company and thank god for him

I know the company I used to work for outsourced the mechanic work on their spotter trucks to a not-in-town even garage. not only ddo they have to wait for that business to have time for that repairing, the people who drive them daily arent able to be involved with the diagnostics because if you drive a truck for work in the yard every day, youre gonna know how it ******* works and what it does/what it shouldnt do. And things like nonworking lights even written on the paperwork it will get returned to breakdown again and the light still didnt work LOL.

And a company mechanic working on the same premises or nearby would have a lot more accountability to the guys using them and himself because the more something is just fixed period, it is in your stall less and you have happy coworkers. based on their size I would say 2 people would have done that previously just to cover more hours of the day like for the various shifts. if not maybe a couple at night to do things like routine maintanence which im sure they just dont bother with on large diesel powered trucks that move 90k of birds or oogles of thousands pounds of products with air brakes and hydraulics for the coupler thing. When ever has a hydraulic hose inconveniently met its match, especially the ones that are food grade hydraulic oil inside them, from old past-due fluid or filters needing changed etc (For a small selection of them, the rest would be normal)

My thought on the alternator is it's probably the case threads. I'm not sure if those are assembled by hand or machine after rebuild but I've seen them to where they are stripped out.

About the not in town garage thing. When I worked for Goodyear we had a similar situation going with a company that had a fleet of Astro vans at the time. The deal was once a year the company let shops bid for their work. The shops would submit what we would charge them for an hourly rate on repairs. The district manager, instructed me to bid 1/2 of our normal hourly rate. We always won the account. Like in your story the deal was that these vans would sit until we were slow and we use them almost like filler work. Sometimes we'd get our lot 1/2 full of these vans waiting for repairs and sometimes those drivers would be very upset if their van was there for several weeks. One problem was we charged so little that we barely made any money on them at all. I was not not suppose to let me top mechanics work on these vans because their pay was to high. We were suppose to do each job as quickly as possible. So when we'd get a slow day I was suppose to let my master techs go home for the day, thereby shaving payroll, and let the tire guys do these vans. But many of them could not diagnose the problems accurately. Of course I was there so I'd bail them out.... It was a horrible situation for the shop and the company. Last time I went by that store there were several vans with that companies name on it in the parking lot so it looks like they are still doing it.....

 

[DoubleDingo]

Good info. Thanks for the heads-up. I knew about AC Delco, but not the others. Thus far I have ran what I now know is Airtex for quite a few years now. And now I want to buy a Carter pump.

 

[Grumpy]

especially because said names are not the end-all, they have Lines/Tiers, which also do not have end-all-be-all...

My brand new ford 3g alternator weith less than 6k on it miles wise, is literally pulling apart.. The case is either yanking the threads off the body screws holding it together or they are backing out when its mounted as intended and etc.

How much you wanna bet these screws are OK, the housing is made from cheap castings or whatever they do, and its just so soft the power of the crank rotating the belt with ford factory wrap is pulling the whole shaft and trying to yank the rear from the front because of it.

Cant even blame ford for that one, its a DB or something brand new with non-ford parts.

But.

GO FORDER.

And all else it seems with parts...
I may have an old 350 3 port pump or 2 laying about, I should go check them to see if carter or whatever maybe can be rebuilt.

That owner wouldnt last long if the company is remotely big. That is direct attack on the quarterly savings they had in store to meet yet again a record quarter, and when it doesnt happen because that isnt possible, they will just have to cut something else to get the short term gain and then flap around again when that turns south.

Then when its running on fumes, bail out the doors and declare bankruptcy and get government welfare somehow in that exchange.

Thank god its not THAT kind of company and thank god for him

I know the company I used to work for outsourced the mechanic work on their spotter trucks to a not-in-town even garage. not only ddo they have to wait for that business to have time for that repairing, the people who drive them daily arent able to be involved with the diagnostics because if you drive a truck for work in the yard every day, youre gonna know how it ******* works and what it does/what it shouldnt do. And things like nonworking lights even written on the paperwork it will get returned to breakdown again and the light still didnt work LOL.

And a company mechanic working on the same premises or nearby would have a lot more accountability to the guys using them and himself because the more something is just fixed period, it is in your stall less and you have happy coworkers. based on their size I would say 2 people would have done that previously just to cover more hours of the day like for the various shifts. if not maybe a couple at night to do things like routine maintanence which im sure they just dont bother with on large diesel powered trucks that move 90k of birds or oogles of thousands pounds of products with air brakes and hydraulics for the coupler thing. When ever has a hydraulic hose inconveniently met its match, especially the ones that are food grade hydraulic oil inside them, from old past-due fluid or filters needing changed etc (For a small selection of them, the rest would be normal)

When I started, the company had 800 employees. When this conversation took place, it was over 4800 personnel worldwide. Then shortly after, the original owners all started retiring and "corporates" moved in. Then everything imploded and self-destructed.... I think they are about 900 people now. None of the original employees want to return, as everyone is a number now.