For anyone wanting to read, this is the cliff notes from a post on another forum that got very heated and eventually locked.. make your own decesion.
f all you want is a good oil choice, you can skip the rest of the background here and just scroll down to the list of oils. More technical background is at the bottom of this post for those that are interested.
Quote:
Great Vette Magazine March 2014 article on oil for flat-tappet cams!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...ch-2014-a.html
Quote:
Regarding diesel oils: Diesel oils do not appear on this list as I'm not confident they meet the requirements for flat-tappet cams. Readers can make their own decisions by reviewing these posts as well as other threads:
For: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1579422796-post494.html
Against: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1579427200-post497.html
Quote:
Regarding "wear testing" by 540 RAT: Forum member 540 RAT has done extensive self-testing of oils with his own equipment and methodology. Although positioned as "wear testing", it measures only a single aspect - film strength - and discounts the need for ZDDP for flat-tappet cams. This is counter to guidance from all cam and oil manufacturers. Read and review for yourself:
540 RAT Testing: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...post1582022844
Oil List
(Synthetic) AMSOIL Synthetic Premium Protection Motor Oils
Links provided by Corvette Forum vendor C66 RacingLLC (PM 'Subdriver')
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30
Claim:
"AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage. "
Verification: Zinc 1440 ppm, Phosphorus 1320 ppm
AMSOIL Premium Protection 10w40
Claim:
"Premium Protection Synthetic Motor Oil is high-viscosity oil engineered to protect against metal-to-metal contact. It resists viscosity loss due to shear and is formulated with a heavy treatment of zinc and other anti-wear additives for excellent protection of gears, bearings, cam lobes and other high-pressure components in engines and transmissions. Premium Protection Synthetic Motor Oil helps extend equipment life."
Verification: Zinc 1378 ppm, Phosphorus 1265 ppm
AMSOIL Z-ROD 20w50
Claim:
"AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage."
Verification:Zinc 1440 ppm, Phosphorus 1320 ppm
(Semi-Synthetic) Brad Penn
Grades: 0W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 , 15W-40, 20W-50
Claim:
In addition to our unique base oil cut, increased concentration of “zinc” (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) provides outstanding anti-wear/anti-scuffing protection for engines employing either‘flat tappet’ or roller cams. BRAD PENN® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oilshave been evaluated by a number of premiere camshaft manufacturers with tremendous success. Many are now recommending our Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils to provide outstanding protection for their ‘flat tappet’ or roller cams.
Verification:
http://www.penngrade1.com/Zinc.aspx
(Synthetic) Castrol EDGE 5W-50
Grades: 5W50
Claim:
"Today's engines are engineering differently andface different demands than those of yester year. Now classic car owners who are particular about what they put into their vintage vehicles can receive modern protection from a higher zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines."
Verification: Claims compatability with API SJ & SL.
(Dino) Collector's Choice Motor Oil
Grades: 20W50
Claim: "
Today's engines are engineering differently and face different demands than those of yesteryear. Now classic car owners who are particular about what they put into their vintage vehicles can receive modern protection from a higher zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines."
Verification: 2000 PPM claimed, which is significantly more than required for even extreme cams.
http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/p...0-815_INST.pdf
(Synthetic) CompCams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil
Grades: 10W30, 15W50
Claim: "
optimum amounts of ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorous) provide unmatched anti-wear properties. available in both 10W30 and 15W50 formulas and is perfect for late model or classic engines with flat tappet valvetrains."
Verification: NONE CompCams Tech Line refused to provide any details on ZDDP levels and the MSDS provides no details. The tech would go so far as to say it has "more than" 1,400 PPM ZDDP.
(Synthetc & Dino) Driven Racing Oil (formerly Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Oil)
Grades: 10W30, 15W50 in both
dino and
synthetic.
Claim:
"Higher levels of Zinc (ZDDP) than regular passenger car oils. Delivers proper anti-wear protection for older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines."
Verification: ~1270 PPM ZDDP
Driven Racing Oil Data Sheet
(Dino) Lucas Hot Rod and Classic Hi-Performance Oil
Grades: 10W30, 10W40, 20W50
Claim:
"Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even under the most severe conditions. It lowers oil temperatures, extends oil life and minimizes metal fatigue. It improves the film strength between the cylinder wall and piston rings and slows oil burning and improves pressure in worn engines. It has good cold temperature properties and stands up to high operating temperatures. It is compatible with methanol and all racing fuels, as well as with synthetic and non-synthetic oils.
Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-40 is for muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars without catalytic converters. It can be used in racing applications. Not recommended for passenger car use."
Verification: ~2100 PPM ZDDP claimed. This is higher than what is typically recommended (1,000 - 1,400).
(Synthetic) Mobile 1 15W-50
Grades: 15W50
Claim:
"Mobil 1 15W-50 is also recommended for older valvetrain designs that may benefit from a higher level of anti-wear normally not required for newer generation vehicles."
Verification:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...duct_guide.pdf
Mobile 1 claims SN approval for this oil, although the grade (15W50) is not included in that specification. Regardless, it contains the right amount of ZDDP for flat-tappet cams.
(Synthetic) Red LineSynthetic Motor Oil
I made the decision to remove Red Line oils from the list as they make no claims regarding flat-tappet cam support on their website and I'm awaiting confirmation from them via email regarding their ZDDP levels.
(Synthetic) RoyalPurple RP
Grades: 10W40, 15W40, 20W50
Claim:
"For stock or mildly modified flat tappet valve trains( less than .525” lift), we recommend our SAE 10W40, 15W40 or 20W50 engine oils."
Verification: NONE
(Synthetic) RoyalPurple HPS High Performance Street Motor Oil
Grades: 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50.
Claim:
It is fortified with a high level of zinc/phosphorus anti-wear additive... Protects valve trains using roller or flat tappet lifters requiring added protection due to high lift/ high ramp rate camshafts
Verification: NONE
(Synthetic) RoyalPurple XPR
Grades:0W10, 5W20, 5W30, 10W40, 20W50
Claim:
"In applications with flat tappet valve trains using high-lift cams and/or high RPM applications, we strongly recommend upgrading to our XPR line of engine oils as these have an even greater concentration of ZDDP providing excellent protection with the higher spring pressures."
Verification:NONE
(Synthetic) Schaeffer Supreme 7000 20W-50 Racing Oil
C66 RacingLLC (PM 'Subdriver')
Grades:
10w40(AMO) ,
20w50(ARO)
Claim:
"ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use."
Verification: ~1265 PPM:
http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbu...t Tappet.pdf
(Dino) Valvoline VR1
Grades: 20W50, 10W30
Claim:
"High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications."
Verification: 1300 - 1400 PPM ZDDP
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf
NOTE that there are some concerns with VR1 due to inconsistenttest results. Additionally, racing oils are not intended for extended (3,000+mile) change intervals nor start-and-stop cycles.
(Dino) Valvoline Specialty Racing Oil ("Not Street Legal")
Grades: 20W50
Claim:
"High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications."
Verification: 1300 - 1400 PPM ZDDP
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Special...acing_Oils.pdf Additionally,racing oils are not intended for extended (3,000+ mile) change intervals.
(Synthetic) Valvoline Roush Full Synthetic
Grades: 5W30, 5W50, 10W30, 10W40
Claim:
"Provide longer lasting zinc/phosphorusanti-wear."
Verification: NONE
(Synthetic) Valvoline Racing Synthetic
Grades: 20W50, 10W30
Claim:
"High zinc/phosphorus for extreme anti-wear,including flat tappets."
Verification: NONE. Additionally, racing oils are not intended for extended (3,000+ mile) change intervals.
Engine Break-In Oils/Additives
Brad Penn Break-in Oil
"The Brad Penn Penn Grade 1 Break-In oil is
designed specifically with a lower level of ZDDP and other select additive components as a Break-In oil. Since break in is a wearing process high levels of an anti-wear additive may be counterproductive. The type of ZDDP used in this oil is also more suitable for break in applications." Taken from the Brad Penn website;
the concept of less ZDDP for initial break-in is counter to offerings by other vendors and cam vendor guidance. Evaluate for yourself.
AMSOIL Break-in Oil
CompCams Break-in Oil
Joe Gibbs Break-in Oil
Lucas High Zinc Engine Break-In Oil
Royal Purple Break-In Oil
GM Engine Oil Suppliment (EOS) (additive)
Technical Background
ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate, "zinc" or"zink") is an anti-wear oil additive that contains roughly equal amounts of zinc (Zn) and phosphorus (P) and is particuarly critical for correct lubrication of flat-tappet camshafts. The amount of ZDDP has decreased over time with the broad adoption of roller-tappet cams and the negative impact ZDDP has on catalytic converters.
Standards for engine oil are set by the American Petroleum Institute (API) and the International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC). Prior to 1988 API
SF specified a minimum of
1500 PPM P. In 1993 API
SGreduced reduced the minimum to
1200 PPM, and it was reduced again to
1000 PPM with the
SL specification. A broad wave of flat-tappet camshaft failures started in 2004 following introduction ofAPI
SM and ILSAC
GF-4oil specifications which set a maximum of
800 PPM and a minimum of
600 PPM P for grades
SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30. Initially blamed on poor cam quality control, it was quickly determined that it was in fact the reduction of ZDDP combined with more agressive cam profiles and associated higher spring loadsthat were the root cause. Testing that showed the new oils would still have acceptable ZDDP for flat-tappet cams was done with
very mild cam profiles and
very low spring pressures. This is not what is found in even a mild performance engine, but
may work - or at least appear to work- in older stock-type engines that don't see hard driving, have mild cams and tired valve springs or just see very few road miles - hence the perspective for some that ZDDP levels are not a genuine issue.
Each owner needs to assess the risks and costs and determine their best choice. Note that as an additive ZDDP loses potency over time, losing approximately 1/2 of it's effectivness at approximately 6,000 miles. The latest API SN and ILSACGF-5 specifications do not change the maximum/minimum ppm ZDDP.
API/ILSAC Oil Specifications
From these events, specifications and timeline I propose that:
- Flat-tappet cam failures started with the reduction of ZDDP < 1000 PPM.
- Based on this, 1000 PPM ZDDP is the minimum required level.
- Levels of 1200-1400 ppm ZDDP may be required for more extreme cams. What level defines too much ZDDP is unclear, but for street use more than around 1400 PPM is likely not appropriate.
- Oil change intervals should be no more than ~3,000 miles with dino oil, ~6,000 with synthetic.
- Any oil marked API SM/SN, ILSAC GF-4/5 or ILSAC CJ-5 in grades SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30 cannot have sufficient ZDDP.
The oils listed above
claim to contain >=1000 PPM ZDDP and/or claim to be specifically formulated for flat-tappet cams. Note that the list is specific for product and grades - often a different product or grade by the same manufacturer won't have the same level of ZDDP.Where there is verification, it's linked.
I am not making recommendations and I have no axe to grind - if there need to be changes, post the information for review.
Specifically not included in the list are:
- Racing oils that are only available in single-weight. Additionally, generally racing oils aren't a good selection for the street, as they're not designed for extended change intervals or street start-and-stop cycles.
- "ZDDP" additives (other than those specifically for engine break-in) as these are not recommended by any oil manufacturer.
- Oils not readily retail-available.
- Diesel oils, as noted at the top of the sticky.
Regarding switching from mineral to synthetic
There's a lot of feedback that making this switch causes engines to develop leaks. This can be the case, but it's important to understand
why. Synthetic oil is more solvent than mineral oil, meaning that it can clean and remove deposits left by mineral oils - and expose worn or damaged oil seals. If your engine currently uses more than about 1 quart every 1,000 miles or is already "leaky", you may experience leaks (or worse leaks) by switching. Note that this solvency is a
good thing; this is exactly what keeps an engine far cleaner when running synthetic.
Oil Analysis Companies
BlackstoneLabs
Oil Analysis Labs, Inc.
Note that it is CRITICAL that the oil be well-agitated before pouring a sample! Also note that the accuracty of "Virgin Oil Analysis" has been called into question based on a number of inconsistent results; see
this link and associated links to evaluate for yourself.
Brad Penn also notes disparity in these results.
Other References
Bob Is The Oil Guy forums - discussion of oil and test results
Copyright (c) 2009 - 2018 Bill Lattimer. All rights reserved.
