lets talk 14 bolts....

[colonel mustard]

hello all.... seems like the driveline section of the forum is going to my home for a while.

I have a 14 FF I'm getting ready to tare into after work. 3.73 gears open diff. so...I have never regeared any axle before....and honestly don't know much about them.

I have a few questions.

1. if I put a locker in it, do I have to re shim the factory gears?

2. is there a down side to an electric locker? I don't offroad often. and no serious rock crawling. fire service roads, Colorado and Utah trips, lots of dual sport traveling.

3. would a Detroit mechanical locker be better?

4. sorry for my ignorance, my mechanical ability is above average, but I don't know everything. I'm just trying to avoid spending money on things I would not use or should have bought something different

 

[crazy4offroad]

1. Yes.
2. E-lockers are nice, but money. You stand the chance of tearing the wire loose on the trail, that's the main down side. I had a Tacoma with an e-locker that only worked in 4-lo, so I did the "grey wire mod" and it would work anytime I hit the button. It was nice to just lock the rear to get up a slippery hill in 2WD and not have to use 4WD.
3. They are nice as well but sometimes may kick in when you don't want them to. Like turning at a light in the snow or ice, locker kicks in because it detects slip, next thing you know you're in full powerslide mode, scaring the **** out of everyone including yourself.
4. No biggie. I have a post here somewhere of when I re-geared my 14b ff. I think you'll like the simplicity of the side adjusters for the carrier vs having to use carrier shims. Also it's nice to not have to take the wheels off to tear it down. If I were you I would get a pinion bearing preload shim kit and forego the crush sleeve.

 

[rpcraft]

The good news is a 14 bolt FF is easier to setup and adjust gearing than it's little brothers, the bad news is moving it around on your own is a challenge and when you drop stuff you better get out of the way, lol.

 

[shiftpro]

Do you have the REAL 10.5" 14 bolt or the 9.5 semi..?

 

[shiftpro]

As far as I know, only Eaton and ARB make selectable lockers... and the Eaton is no where near as strong as the ARB.
With the ARB you will need a compressor as it is air activated. May as well get a decent air compressor then and a tank... and train horns.

A Detroit is almost as strong as an ARB but you can't turn it off. Depending where and how you drive it may be all you need. It will chirp you tires on pavement turning tight circles. Here wheeling in BC we have lots of logging roads that are off-camber and in greasy situations a 'locked' locker such as the Detroit can get you in to a heap of **** in a hurry.
But your location tells me farm work, mud pits and such so a Detroit would probably serve you fine.

 

[colonel mustard]

1. Yes.
2. E-lockers are nice, but money. You stand the chance of tearing the wire loose on the trail, that's the main down side. I had a Tacoma with an e-locker that only worked in 4-lo, so I did the "grey wire mod" and it would work anytime I hit the button. It was nice to just lock the rear to get up a slippery hill in 2WD and not have to use 4WD.
3. They are nice as well but sometimes may kick in when you don't want them to. Like turning at a light in the snow or ice, locker kicks in because it detects slip, next thing you know you're in full powerslide mode, scaring the **** out of everyone including yourself.
4. No biggie. I have a post here somewhere of when I re-geared my 14b ff. I think you'll like the simplicity of the side adjusters for the carrier vs having to use carrier shims. Also it's nice to not have to take the wheels off to tear it down. If I were you I would get a pinion bearing preload shim kit and forego the crush sleeve.

thanks for the info. I will have to search for your regear thread. good advice on the preload shim kit.

 

[colonel mustard]

Do you have the REAL 10.5" 14 bolt or the 9.5 semi..?

10.5" FF

 

[colonel mustard]

As far as I know, only Eaton and ARB make selectable lockers... and the Eaton is no where near as strong as the ARB.
With the ARB you will need a compressor as it is air activated. May as well get a decent air compressor then and a tank... and train horns.

A Detroit is almost as strong as an ARB but you can't turn it off. Depending where and how you drive it may be all you need. It will chirp you tires on pavement turning tight circles. Here wheeling in BC we have lots of logging roads that are off-camber and in greasy situations a 'locked' locker such as the Detroit can get you in to a heap of **** in a hurry.
But your location tells me farm work, mud pits and such so a Detroit would probably serve you fine.

mostly the truck is used for traveling and car shows. we take it to Colorado and do the passes (engineers pass, ophirs pass, ect.) and have plans for Utah and Alaska. also we go to silver lake sand dunes. we actually don't wheel much in Kentucky. the trails here are tight and narrow and very rocky. its hard to get our jeep through the trails without body damage on a lot of them....so we just don't try on the big bottom girl. its not a vehicle I want to crush up.

givin that....that's why I was thinking selectable locker. the roads here are super twisty and super narrow..

 

[CSFJ]

As far as I know, only Eaton and ARB make selectable lockers... and the Eaton is no where near as strong as the ARB.
With the ARB you will need a compressor as it is air activated. May as well get a decent air compressor then and a tank... and train horns.

A Detroit is almost as strong as an ARB but you can't turn it off. Depending where and how you drive it may be all you need. It will chirp you tires on pavement turning tight circles. Here wheeling in BC we have lots of logging roads that are off-camber and in greasy situations a 'locked' locker such as the Detroit can get you in to a heap of **** in a hurry.
But your location tells me farm work, mud pits and such so a Detroit would probably serve you fine.

OX locker is a third option for selectable traction. Cable operated instead of electric or pneumatic.

http://www.ox-usa.com


Although, I don't see a listing for 14 bolts on the site. Just D44s and 10 bolts.

 

[hirschdalechevy]

Just to give you some more info. on a detroit locker , you do not have to set up the gear's , it's a drop in , but you have to have a open carrier.

A full float 14 bolt has collar nuts to adjust the carrier side to side so you can mark them to get the carrier back to it's sweet spot.

You must split the carrier to install a detroit , so mark the ring gear , take it off , pull all spider's out , put detroit in , put marked ring gear back on , re install carrier , set collar nuts back to marked spot , (count turns to marks) , and you are done.

The bearing caps need to go back the same way as well.

 

[colonel mustard]

Just to give you some more info. on a detroit locker , you do not have to set up the gear's , it's a drop in , but you have to have a open carrier.

A full float 14 bolt has collar nuts to adjust the carrier side to side so you can mark them to get the carrier back to it's sweet spot.

You must split the carrier to install a detroit , so mark the ring gear , take it off , pull all spider's out , put detroit in , put marked ring gear back on , re install carrier , set collar nuts back to marked spot , (count turns to marks) , and you are done.

The bearing caps need to go back the same way as well.

interesting...so I would mark the ring gear to the carrier ??

 

[shiftpro]

. the roads here are super twisty and super narrow..

There you go... your tire life would suffer on all those little bends in life.
As I was reading your reply I was thinking leave it open, but mentioning the exploring you will get around to... Utah, sand dunes, trip to Alaska (welcome to stop by my place on the way) I'll go back to recommending the ARB, good compressor and tank (and train horns).

 

[hirschdalechevy]

interesting...so I would mark the ring gear to the carrier ??

Yes , so you put it back on the carrier at the same spot , (everything needs to go back the same).

There you go... your tire life would suffer on all those little bends in life.
As I was reading your reply I was thinking leave it open, but mentioning the exploring you will get around to... Utah, sand dunes, trip to Alaska (welcome to stop by my place on the way) I'll go back to recommending the ARB, good compressor and tank (and train horns).

Actually my detroit is not bad at all for dragging a tire as long as you are not towing something. The only time it wants to drag a tire is when you hammer on it. Even in a hot parking lot cranking into a spot , if you go easy , no tire dragging at all. I will say on plowed snow roads you have to hang on to her though.

Arb's are cool for sure , I just did not want to drop the coin on one and then you do have to have the gears done.

I have had detroit's in several of my square's and have never had any breakage as well and I am not easy on my junk.

 

[shiftpro]

Actually my detroit is not bad at all for dragging a tire as long as you are not towing something. The only time it wants to drag a tire is when you hammer on it. Even in a hot parking lot cranking into a spot , if you go easy , no tire dragging at all. I will say on plowed snow roads you have to hang on to her though.[/QUOTE]

Well that's how they are supposed to work. It takes some proper driving either way. Some Detroits are tighter than others. Maybe they can be adjusted/set up/tuned?
And they are half the price of ARBs so that's worth noting.

 

[rpcraft]

I found on my 1/2 Ram that on the street if there was moisture on the ground it was so easy to spin the rear out of control. After a time or two I got the hang of it, but because it had the wider tires (with the 20 inch wheels) any time I took more than a gentle turn around a corner, like while parking or turning around a street corner, you could hear the tires barking. Those tires were just the regular Goodyear HT's so I imagine something with rougher tread would make a ton of noise but considering I averaged about 40K per tire set, the wear on the back wasn't too bad so long as I kept the tires rotated.