Increased Cooling with Electric Fan and Electric Water Pump

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SirRobyn0

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Not to get to far into the mechanical vs electric discussion but different electric fans will have different CFM ratings as will mechanical fans, and that will be effected by the fan clutch on a mechanical fan as well. And the shroud around each on will effect what actually pulls though the radiator. A cheap electric fan is going to pull far, far less than even the most basic mechanic fan, but a high end, (much more costly unit might).

It is my understanding that the main reasons electric fans came into use by manufactures, was more less space needed for it. And the ability for the PCM to control it.

At the shop we see older rigs all the time. When there is a fan issue with a mechanical fan it's $60 - $80 fan clutch. If it's a electrical fan it's a much more spendy electrical fan replacement.

I can respect that some folks prefer an electric fan and will go though the added cost and time to install, but I personally prefer the old mechanical fans because it's already there and I the low cost for replacement parts.
 

SirRobyn0

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Right, thanks. I've considered possible need for a higher capacity battery, too. I don't rush into this kinda stuff so I appreciate all these suggestions. I't will stew in my brain for a while, and I'll look up some more stuff and consider all forum cautions/suggestions. Then try not to screw anything up.
You'll be fine. If you do decide to remove the heat riser you can always reinstall a new one if you don't like the results. It's not particularly hard to remove provided the bolts aren't seized into the manifold.
 

Frankenchevy

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but a high end, (much more costly unit might).
This may be so. I looked and couldn’t find one for my 04 Cummins project and cost wasn’t really a factor.

I did find a crazy OTR truck fan, but it won’t fit anything but a semi…

If anyone knows of anything, please let me know. I’ll buy it if it looks legit enough for a diesel that will gross over 16k (which is where the high end ones from Spal and the like tend to draw the line).
 

SirRobyn0

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This may be so. I looked and couldn’t find one for my 04 Cummins project and cost wasn’t really a factor.

I did find a crazy OTR truck fan, but it won’t fit anything but a semi…

If anyone knows of anything, please let me know. I’ll buy it if it looks legit enough for a diesel that will gross over 16k (which is where the high end ones from Spal and the like tend to draw the line).
If your wanting to keep a mechanical fan consider one from a medium duty GM. IDK if that would work or not for you, but I do know there were some big fans put on those 454's.

I've actually got a 98' Chev 6500 in the shop right now with the 454. I know that it's one of the fans that has the single big nut to the water pump. It might be to big for a pickup, but I could take measurements if you'd like.
 

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If your wanting to keep a mechanical fan consider one from a medium duty GM. IDK if that would work or not for you, but I do know there were some big fans put on those 454's.

I've actually got a 98' Chev 6500 in the shop right now with the 454. I know that it's one of the fans that has the single big nut to the water pump. It might be to big for a pickup, but I could take measurements if you'd like.


It’s for my early 04 Cummins build. I have very specific plans for the truck that may’ve been nice in a couple aspects to not run a mechanical fan, but it’ll also tow 10,000lbs worth of horse trailer and have a slide in camper in the bed.

The OEM fan is plenty capable, but mopar used a thermal type clutch in those years with some electric controls. When they work they’re fine, when they fail, it can cause carnage. A common mod is a hub adapter to convert from a 94-97 OBS ford clutch, which is 100% mechanical. That is what I’ve done as of now.
 

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It’s for my early 04 Cummins build. I have very specific plans for the truck that may’ve been nice in a couple aspects to not run a mechanical fan, but it’ll also tow 10,000lbs worth of horse trailer and have a slide in camper in the bed.

The OEM fan is plenty capable, but mopar used a thermal type clutch in those years with some electric controls. When they work they’re fine, when they fail, it can cause carnage. A common mod is a hub adapter to convert from a 94-97 OBS ford clutch, which is 100% mechanical. That is what I’ve done as of now.
Sounds like you figured out what to do. Sorry last night I was in a ton of pain from a procedure the day before and all the details just did not click...
 

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Sounds like you figured out what to do. Sorry last night I was in a ton of pain from a procedure the day before and all the details just did not click...
Good luck on feeling better. Coming into spring, I’m sure things will be ramping up for you on your property.
 

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Good luck on feeling better. Coming into spring, I’m sure things will be ramping up for you on your property.
Yes it's just starting to pick up. The main thing I've been dealing with recently has been capsulitis in one of my feet. It is simply amazing to me how much pain one little tiny joint can cause!
 

QBuff02

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Too many times I see people trying to crutch an issue within the cooling system by installing electric fans and the like. 500+HP big block in a K30 with 33" tall tires and 4.10 gears that regularly gets cruised down the road around 3,000rpm and the temp gauge never gets over 205 on the hottest days even during town driving. I'd say flush and clean the cooling system, inspect the radiator, make sure the fan shroud is correct and correctly installed, and more than likely replace the thermostat and fan clutch. You'd probably have less than a hundred bucks or so total into all of that vs. spending hundreds of dollars on electric fans and modifying things to make them work and only masking the symptoms of the actual problem. Just hate to see people throw good money at bad.
 

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You'll be fine. If you do decide to remove the heat riser you can always reinstall a new one if you don't like the results. It's not particularly hard to remove provided the bolts aren't seized into the manifold.
Rob, I got so many good suggestions it's actually reminded me of a couple of things I was kickin around a while back, like checking if thermo is fully functioning, etc. I think I'll start by pressure testing the coolant system and also seeing if I can evacuate any air in the system. I'm going to list all items, like that heat riser, in whatever order seems logical and adjust the order if I discover anything out of whack. If I find nothing, I'll then go the electric fan and electric water pump route. What I ultimately want to change is to lower block heat right after highway speed on 95 degree days when the truck sits at a light or I park it right after a highway run and leave again shortly after. If I find nothing else and I go electric with the fan & water pump and set 'em up to run by thermostat after the engine is shut off until it's a bit cooler, I believe that'l work. A lot of more modern vehicles already have that setup but only with the fan.
 

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If it's the original radiator, I'd try to have that radiator repaired if it's minor and you have a shop close to you. I'm lucky and minor repairs/mods are under $50. Old radiators are typically better than the new aluminum/plastic tank ones. Or you can pay more for all aluminum new.
David, I replaced the too-leaky to-bad-to-repair oem one 5 or 6 years ago with a 2-row BeCool aluminum from Summit. I wasn't aware of the 3 or 4 row recommendation for 454's when I did it, but a "forumer" said its construction makes it just as efficient as a 3 or 4 row. With all the great help I've gotten on the forum, I'm makin an orderly check list of tests and inspections to see if I can figger it out. If and when I do I'll submit my fndings on this thread to pay it forward for all here. Thanks!
 

drumvirt

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Too many times I see people trying to crutch an issue within the cooling system by installing electric fans and the like. 500+HP big block in a K30 with 33" tall tires and 4.10 gears that regularly gets cruised down the road around 3,000rpm and the temp gauge never gets over 205 on the hottest days even during town driving. I'd say flush and clean the cooling system, inspect the radiator, make sure the fan shroud is correct and correctly installed, and more than likely replace the thermostat and fan clutch. You'd probably have less than a hundred bucks or so total into all of that vs. spending hundreds of dollars on electric fans and modifying things to make them work and only masking the symptoms of the actual problem. Just hate to see people throw good money at bad.
Hey Quincy, I left Chi. in '73, folks left and moved to Sidney outside of Champaign same time, uncle had a small farm in Effingham, Gr. Gr. Grandpa settled in unincorporated Chi. in about 1830 or earlier, so my family has been messin up Illinois for centuries! Ha! By the way, Effingham was named by a farmer who didn't like the way one of his pigs tasted! Anyway, you're right, thanks. Rad. is a 2 row BeCool from Summit I replaced a leaky OEM with 5 or 6 years ago, w/flush., (but probly flush again), recommended by Summit. Shroud is right plus sealed all side gaps, etc. I'm makin a list for next tests in order of most possible need like thermo., fan clutch, coolant system pressure test and burp, heat riser, etc. My problem is not actually at highway speeds, its immediately after, on 95 degree days when I sit at a light or park it and come back & drive off soon after. Hence, if I find nothing else, my plan of electric fan and water pump thermo. controlled to keep running for a bit after engine is shut off. Would need more battery and alternator. Thanks!
 

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Not sure anything I said is untrue. I’ve yet to see an aftermarket fan pull more than about 2500cfm each.

I called all the oem quality suppliers. I just ordered a Griffin radiator for my older Cummins. I talked to one of their tech guys who adamantly talked me out of their dual spal setup even though it would’ve turned my $1300 order into a $2000 order from them.

I stand by the premise that one should not try to solve an overheating problem on a truck being “driven at highway speeds” as the OP stated with an e-fan. There’s something else going on if the OEM setup is insufficient.

It’s hard to say a truck is pulling 20,000 cfm across its radiator above 40mph without taking into consideration all factors. I’ve yet to come across a test with an anemometer showing that. What I have seen are bench flow tests that actually show that many e-fans restrict air flow through the radiator more so than a large shroud from a single clutch fan. I’d guess it’s due to the shroud’s shape and the smaller openings of E-fans have more stuff in the way i.e. several more tightly spaced blades and a tightly spaced grill behind the fan blades.

I would agree that e-fans are capable and a viable choice for lighter duty applications, but they are not a smoking gun to solving overheating and I certainly wouldn’t tow heavy with one.
Thanks Jeremy. In my OP I didn't originally make my problem totally clear. In the OP I wrote that I had, "a problem cooling when I've been driving at highway speeds and outside temp hits about 95 or more", and then finished by asking how I might be able to cool it down after I shut my truck off. In a later post in this discussion I think I cleared that up but a lot of folks didn't catch it.

My problem on these 95+ days occurs when I've been on the road for a while and either stop and park and then return 15 or 20 minutes later and try to restart it, or, like happened one time, after 1.5 hours of 70 mph and 95+ degree highway driving, hauling 3700 lbs in the bed, traffic stopped near the top of a 2 mile grade. Shortly, my truck died, couldn't start it, and got towed home.

If I can keep it moving even at a crawl and not stop dead in those situations, I can keep it going.

So first, as many suggested, I'll continue to work on improving the OEM "version" of the cooling system. If I still need better results, I can modify the system to keep the coolant circulating fast, and the fans blowing fast, when I'm going slow after highway speeds. I think it will keep that built up BB heat cooled down. Other than that, Ol' Brutus (my dually) only has 113,000 miles and runs smooth and strong. No performance mods but once I get that 454 and 4-speed rolling it goes like a bat out of hell!

Even for my original lack of clarity, I got lots of great info, tips, and food for thought. It caused me to re-examine my engine. I noticed a very small amount of coolant below the hoses going through the firewall on the engine side, to my heater core. Snugging the clamps didn't help. Plus, another small amount of coolant wetness around the thermostat neck. So I have a possible drop in coolant pressure and need for repairs. Plus, I've got more to check out because of everyone's help, including yours.

Hey, you wouldn't happen to know how to re-gear my old wall clock to get it to run at half speed would ya? It's Spring and the grass is growing, garden's not planted nor seeds started (way late), logs sittin' back by the wood shed for the second half of next Winter's heat, and I'm stuck replacing Ol' Brutus' passenger window innards, all the struts on my 300,000+ mile Pontiac (miracle car), and sourcing a remanned 4R70W tranny (Jegs?) for my beautiful, but immobilized, "95 Merc. No complaints though. No bombs or missiles, nobody shooting at me, got a good roof, good food, heat and a good family.
 

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