I think I may have bent push rods--and other issues (76 GMC W/455 Olds). Crap.

[idahovette]

@OldBlueDually fingers crossed for you!!!!

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ok I was out of town for couple days and getting caught up. Now I'm not really an engine builder but I've done many many R&R install a rebuilt motor whether stock or built I've NEVER been told NOT to prime the engine before start up. I would double check that was correct and you didn't get instructions for a different setup / or talked someone at com cams that gave you bad info. No priming is literally a recipe to begin the process of wiping a lobe.

I would pull the lifters on those loose cylinders and make sure that they aren't flattening the cam. They get concave on the bottom.

Do the above before you invest further time and money or you might spend a lot of time and money chasing your tail.

 

[OldBlueDually]

To everyone questioning why I did not prime the engine, see the below PDF, step #9;

https://www.compcams.com/pub/media/productattach/1/4/145.pdf

Everything I did is exactly to what they stated. Remember, I oiled & assembly lubed the living sh!t out of everything, I was not concerned about not having enough oil. When this 455 started you would've thought there was a problem for how much smoke it produced because of my over-oiling (if there is such a thing) of everything.

So, back to the noise issue, and oil filter findings, and what I now see which may have contributed. Things that did not help: Felpro head gaskets being thicker, wear on the rocker arms, wear on the rocker pivots. What I saw in the oil filter: wear/break-in materials, some fine aluminum (thinking from rocker pivots going to new extremes and creating a wear pattern in rockers), nothing seen in oil filter that blew my mind, or warranted an engine yank out and back to the stand.

At this point, with now seeing I have no bent pushrods, and the rockers/pivots should have NEVER been used to begin with due to the wear of them (my own fault), and without seeing metal all over in the oil filter I am still debating whether to take off the intake or not. If I had wiped cam lobes, or wiped lifters don't you think you would see a crap-ton of metal filings in the oil filter? I don't see anything beyond typical wear/break-in stuff.

After I decide what to do: I am going to change the oil, install a new filter, install adjustable rockers (thanks @Matt69olds as they arrived today!!), figure out what pushrod length I need, then order new hardened pushrods, and then set rockers properly and lock them down, then fire this beast back up.

 

[SirRobyn0]

To everyone questioning why I did not prime the engine, see the below PDF, step #9;

https://www.compcams.com/pub/media/productattach/1/4/145.pdf

Everything I did is exactly to what they stated. Remember, I oiled & assembly lubed the living sh!t out of everything, I was not concerned about not having enough oil. When this 455 started you would've thought there was a problem for how much smoke it produced because of my over-oiling (if there is such a thing) of everything.

So, back to the noise issue, and oil filter findings, and what I now see which may have contributed. Things that did not help: Felpro head gaskets being thicker, wear on the rocker arms, wear on the rocker pivots. What I saw in the oil filter: wear/break-in materials, some fine aluminum (thinking from rocker pivots going to new extremes and creating a wear pattern in rockers), nothing seen in oil filter that blew my mind, or warranted an engine yank out and back to the stand.

At this point, with now seeing I have no bent pushrods, and the rockers/pivots should have NEVER been used to begin with due to the wear of them (my own fault), and without seeing metal all over in the oil filter I am still debating whether to take off the intake or not. If I had wiped cam lobes, or wiped lifters don't you think you would see a crap-ton of metal filings in the oil filter? I don't see anything beyond typical wear/break-in stuff.

After I decide what to do: I am going to change the oil, install a new filter, install adjustable rockers (thanks @Matt69olds as they arrived today!!), figure out what pushrod length I need, then order new hardened pushrods, and then set rockers properly and lock them down, then fire this beast back up.

My $.02 on "If I had wiped cam lobes, or wiped lifters don't you think you would see a crap-ton of metal filings in the oil filter? I don't see anything beyond typical wear/break-in stuff." If you had seen a crap-ton of metal then that would be positive something eat itself, but and for example we had a 77 C20 in here last year. We installed a stock built remaned unit from what we use to consider a good source, broke the cam in properly and ran high zinc oil. It came back after a short time with what appeared to be a misfire and some lifter noise. Sure enough the #7 intake lifter was concaved. indicating the cam was flattened, or in the process of doing so. The oil did not look really any worse than normal break in but we did not descent the filter. On the other had we had an AMC 360 in a couple years ago with multiple lobes gone. This engine did have obvious metal in the oil.

My point is a wiped cam lob, if just one can sometimes be not so obvious in looking at the oil. It could well be that camshaft is just fine. I just hate to see you try other stuff and it doesn't work out because you have a wiped lobe. Do you have any ability to get hold of a borescope?

The rockers that seemed loose, can you pull the push rod out and try to extract the lifter out of the bore and up though the push rod hole? If you could do that and see the bottom of the lifter you'd know if you have a cam issue without having to pull the intake. Also even if you do find out that you wiped a lobe it may very well not have anything to do with the break in procedure at all. A defective lifter that hammers the not yet broke in camshaft can do it. Or an oiling problem within the engine.

Good luck with whatever direction you decide to go in, it's not a fun place to be in.

 

[scrap--metal]

To everyone questioning why I did not prime the engine, see the below PDF, step #9

I interpret step #9 of the PDF you referenced a little differently. I think it's saying do not prime the engine before setting the valve lash (which is apparently not applicable to your Olds engine's factory style rockers). The lifters shouldn't be fully "pumped up" for initial valve adjustments. I don't think it's referencing anything else, but it isn't very clear either.

Oddly, I couldn't find any mention of priming the engine before breaking in the cam. There were plenty of details regarding lubrication, engine RPM, and duration of the cam break-in procedure, but no mention of engine priming. Bizarre...

I guess it is what it is at this point. If I were you, I'd be very tempted to run it and periodically check on the rockers and pushrods. That's just my style though, and everyone has their own. Rob is right, it's certainly not a fun place to be in.

 

[OldBlueDually]

I interpret step #9 of the PDF you referenced a little differently. I think it's saying do not prime the engine before setting the valve lash (which is apparently not applicable to your Olds engine's factory style rockers). The lifters shouldn't be fully "pumped up" for initial valve adjustments. I don't think it's referencing anything else, but it isn't very clear either.

Oddly, I couldn't find any mention of priming the engine before breaking in the cam. There were plenty of details regarding lubrication, engine RPM, and duration of the cam break-in procedure, but no mention of engine priming. Bizarre...

I guess it is what it is at this point. If I were you, I'd be very tempted to run it and periodically check on the rockers and pushrods. That's just my style though, and everyone has their own. Rob is right, it's certainly not a fun place to be in.

I hear you there. Not a fun place to be in, but at the same token it isn't all that bad either as I am glad I did not find shavings.

Your last statement is also what I was thinking too, just run it and keep an eye on it. Yanking valve covers to check rockers/pushrods is nothing.

Back when I did my Olds 350 (all fresh, all new parts, bored, line bored, balanced rods...etc.) I primed the effing crap out of it, used assembly lube on it too, but not as much assembly lube as I threw into this 455. So, I think that alone was probably a bit of saving grace.

Talk about feeling stupid though, geez....a guy like myself that has done this before should know better and double-triple checked everything before firing it up.

 

[Ricko1966]

Okay my 02 cents talk to your cam manufacturer and find out how much spring you really need. The lighter the better especially these days. Heavy springs rob horse power and make cams go flat. What Matt told you about rocker arm geometry is good advice,different than how I do it I use an adjustable push rod find the length push rod I need and cut pushrods to length. You can even do this with some stock rods if they have press in ends. Put them in a lathe,use a parting tool and cut the pushrod just behind the end then press the end in farther. Dammit I don't know how I ended up on an old thread. Sorry.