Frame Rivet Replacement

[SquareRoot]

Overthinking rivets. Who would have thought? I thought overthinking was reserved for sparkplugs. @SirRobyn0

 

[SirRobyn0]

Overthinking rivets. Who would have thought? I thought overthinking was reserved for sparkplugs. @SirRobyn0

Lets see how many pages we can get this up to! Yes, I overthought the spark plugs and under thought the intake manifold gasket, but in the end it's fixed so happy about that.

To the rivet question. Anyone remember the 90's Ford Explorers? So when I was running tire stores back in the 90's and even into the early 2000's those 90's Explorers were common. They had a terrible time with just about every component on the front end, but the thing we all dreaded the most was the radius arm bushings. There were two way to replace them, drop the entire front end out of the rigs, or grind the rivets off of the radius arm bushing frame brackets. Doing that method I guy could be in and out in about 20 minutes a side. We replaced the rivets grade 8 bolts, and the company policy was to put red locktite on them. We never had a problem with any of them, so unless you need the OE rivet look, I'd just do grade 8 bolts and don't think anything more of it, they will be just fine.

 

[bucket]

Lets see how many pages we can get this up to! Yes, I overthought the spark plugs and under thought the intake manifold gasket, but in the end it's fixed so happy about that.

To the rivet question. Anyone remember the 90's Ford Explorers? So when I was running tire stores back in the 90's and even into the early 2000's those 90's Explorers were common. They had a terrible time with just about every component on the front end, but the thing we all dreaded the most was the radius arm bushings. There were two way to replace them, drop the entire front end out of the rigs, or grind the rivets off of the radius arm bushing frame brackets. Doing that method I guy could be in and out in about 20 minutes a side. We replaced the rivets grade 8 bolts, and the company policy was to put red locktite on them. We never had a problem with any of them, so unless you need the OE rivet look, I'd just do grade 8 bolts and don't think anything more of it, they will be just fine.

You are bringing back bad memories. I forgot about those radius arm bushings. Those were as common as all the Rangers and F-150's with rotten spring hangers and coil spring pockets.

 

[SirRobyn0]

You are bringing back bad memories. I forgot about those radius arm bushings. Those were as common as all the Rangers and F-150's with rotten spring hangers and coil spring pockets.

Given where I live the rotten spring hangers were not common, but we'd see them once in a while. But yea, the rangers had those radius arm bushings too.

What I really hated about the Explorer and Rangers of those years, wasn't the radius arm bushings though that job was no fun. What I couldn't stand is when people would come in complaining of a noise in the front end. And it would be like ya, which noise, which squeak? or is it the clunk? Which clunk the one over bumps or the one turning the wheels? What a terrible front end.

 

[Turbo4whl]

Unless you are replacing with hot rivets, any out of round condition will affect the soundness of the fastener. Remember to SLIGHTLY deburr/chamfer both edges of the holes, as this will reduce the probability of shunts along the edge of the bore.

Were the original frame accessories done with hot set rivets, or cold set rivets?

@Keith Seymore ??

 

[Vbb199]

You mean to tell me there's no way to bypass the inherit safety of the rivets?

 

[Keith Seymore]

Just use quality grade 8 bolts. Make sure to use hardened washers and use the pinch type lock nuts, also hardened.

This is what was done on the assembly line, as the factory repair for a mis-hit or missing rivet.

K

 

[Keith Seymore]

Were the original frame accessories done with hot set rivets, or cold set rivets?

@Keith Seymore ??

Cold.

It was just a big moveable "press", like a hydraulic C clamp, hanging and counterbalanced from a tool rail overhead, and would squeeze the rivet into shape. Very low drama.

K

 

[Keith Seymore]

Since I'm here, I'll add that the frames were received as individual rails, crossmembers, etc and built up on the chassis line.

The operator would select the desired frame rails (1/2, 3/4 or 1 ton, 2wd vs 4wd, and wheelbase) and set them on a "pedestal line". The moving pedestals not only held the rails at a comfortable working height but also provided the fixturing to make sure the frame was square. The appropriate cross members were built up separately*, in sequence, and then installed as the rails moved on down the line.

I should also mention the frames started out upside down, to allow gravity to hold the front and rear suspension/axles in place until they were torqued down. During the process the frame was transferred from the pedestals to being hung from chains, and then flipped right side up midway through the process using a hydraulic chain hoist.

K

 

[Keith Seymore]

*I'm reminded about the guy that built up these cross members. He would work like a fiend all morning building up his day's supply, in sequential order, so that when the afternoon came he could kick back and leisurely just hang the crossmembers onto the feeder line at the appropriate time.

Around noontime you could not even see the guy because we was surrounded by this forest of built up crossmembers in every nook and cranny of his floor space.

K

 

[SquareRoot]

You mean to tell me there's no way to bypass the inherit safety of the rivets?

LOL. and that ties em all together.

 

[Grumpy]

I have a few National Certifications as well as a Government Vehicle Inspection Certification (I am licensed to inspect everything except motorcycles, boats, cranes and aircraft,) and I have personally witnessed Grade 8 bolts fail. This is due to the fact there are many manufacturers (normally "offshore") who supply products with false grading on them - bolts, nuts and DOT-Approved headlamps for example (the DOT designation on many aftermarket lamps has been falsely applied to many LED lamps manufactured in China for example, yet they are in reality not approved.)

I have recently witnessed the head of a G8 5/8"-NF bolt pull down in the centre while the remainder of the outside sucked down at 120#ft - we ended up testing several more and threw out all twenty.

I stress the ARP and Caterpillar brands because those manufacturers go the through a verifiable quality control process.

In cases where ultimate strength is required, I visit a competitor who actually has a proper Hauk machine. It's capacity is up to 3/4" diameter, and when the job is complete it is absolutely perfect.

 

[Bennyt]

On a few of the brackets, such as spring hangers, body mounts, the outside diameter of most washers will interfere as the hole is too close to the curvature of the bracket.

To get around that, I used Grade 8 AN washers as they have a smaller outside diameter. I also think that they look better.

The local Nut and Bolt shop I use is $6.75-8 a pound for most grade 8 hardware but Grade 8 AN is $15 or so. I do believe that the Grade 8 hardware I buy from them is superior to what I find at Lowes/ HD etc and they probably stock 4 or 5 different types of washers per size; standard, fender, thick, AN, etc.

 

[Soundmound]

This is what was done on the assembly line, as the factory repair for a mis-hit or missing rivet.

K

Found three just under my bed when cleaning the frame rails today. Some look to bear the factory technicians marks still 38 years later.

 

[CheemsK1500]

How were the factory rivets installed? Was there some sort of hydraulic press jig? I have seen people set rivets pretty well with an air hammer, but I assume a car plant would have something a little more advanced. I'm sure quality grade 8 hardware will hold just as good or better as factory rivets though.