Fixing a jimmy rigged electrical system

[jfrancom101]

Do you have 12+ volts on the big red wire connected to the starter? If you want to test the starter you can jump 12 volts to the smaller terminal with the wire connected to it. A visual inspection of the starter to check to verify wire connections are tight and fusible links are not burnt while you are down under would be good. The pics below are what my son's starter wires looked like. Both wires connected to the hoop terminal are fusible links, and power most of the vehicle. The other single wire activates the starter. And of course the big red wire should come straight from the battery. (not shown in the pictures) The second and third pictures show what a burnt fusible like look like.

I didn't see and type of fusible link. I actually don't think that power goes to the starter to the rest of the engine. I think that maybe the other battery covers it

 

[WP29P4A]

Here is what it looks like on mine. What it looks like to me is a wire going from the main positive terminal to the solenoid to activate it. So if any power gets through the first solenoid (mounted on the frame of the truck) then it goes to the starter motor and then its rigged to automatically override the solenoid on the starter. So the ignition must not go to the starter, it's got to go to the solenoid on the frame I think.

Your starter ONLY has the main power (from battery) and the switch/trigger wire from the ignition switch. Can you make a simple Diagram of where the battery cables connect? For both batteries.

Your fusible links will be on the firewall or at one of the solenoids, since it's not at the starter.

 

[jfrancom101]

It looks like that is the wires that power the Ignition. Is there something spliced to the brown wire with white stripe on the connector plugged into the IGN slot. Would like to know if you have 12 volts on the brown wire with the white stripe. What color wires are in that connector with the brown wire. Looks like orange and pink with a stripe?

I followed the brown wire, it goes into a mini harness and then is cut up next to another wire. Maybe the old ignition system? Ill look at the rest of the wires. I also got a wiring diagram.
The wire going to the positive goes into a wringing harness that comes out into connects down and further out from there the other wires go through the firewall. When I jump positive to that wire it activates the solenoid and the engine turns over. I assme that goes straight to the ignition?
Other notes. I honestly see no way for the alternator to charge the battery that powers the starter. Did he have to charge the battery manually? the alternator just goes to the fusible link I just repalced. I'll be honest it looks like smaller wire then I'm used to coming off of the alternator.

 

[jfrancom101]

Did we determine what your fuel tank has on top for sender/vent/return as in, do we know you have all three? if so, you should pick up a locally availanble "for now" fuel pump IF at that point you will be quickly wrapping up electrical repair and need to be shooting around. if you arent there, i wouldnt maybe Hold that money, dont spend, but keep on those electricals and get her running

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I might get a for now pump. ,my check hasn't gone through, so once I have the electrical figured out if I still don't have that paycheck I'll get the truck running at least

 

[jfrancom101]

OP the big + wire to the starter is always hot or should be. It’s not the external solenoid controlling starter engagement.

But you said it was cranking. That means there is a small wire that may come off the mystery solenoid to trigger the starter.
At this point this is as confusing for us as it is you.

SOrry for the condusion. So the starter is controlled 100% by the external solenoid as far as I can tell. It looks like a wire goes from the big cable on the starter to the solenoid on the starter therefore if there is power at the main cable on the styarter it automatically jymps the solenoid. So 100% controlled by the external solenoid. haha I don't think that is stock

 

[jfrancom101]

Ok, so now it looks like the solenoid close to the fuel pump might have been a Mcguyver to get the starter working without replacing it? The best thing to do at this point is to make a simple diagram of the power system, both batteries, two Solenoids?(yes/no?), starter. Can you please make us a diagram of what you have, it doesn't have to be in color? Just something like the sample I included. It will make it much easier to get power back where it should be.

Will you please unplug the red wire, with the yellow crimp on connector that has black tape around it, connected to the Distributor, I want to know if it is crimped tight or held on with the tape.

I did take off that tape. the red wire is crimped on, the yellow fuel pump wire was only taped on

 

[Grit dog]

SOrry for the condusion. So the starter is controlled 100% by the external solenoid as far as I can tell. It looks like a wire goes from the big cable on the starter to the solenoid on the starter therefore if there is power at the main cable on the styarter it automatically jymps the solenoid. So 100% controlled by the external solenoid. haha I don't think that is stock

No not stock lol.
But that explains that. Don’t understand why but…
You could use the wire that triggers that solenoid to trigger the starter.
Or leave as is for now. 1 mystery solved. Onward!

 

[jfrancom101]

No not stock lol.
But that explains that. Don’t understand why but…
You could use the wire that triggers that solenoid to trigger the starter.
Or leave as is for now. 1 mystery solved. Onward!

Yeah, Eventually I'd like to fix it, but I'll probably get th thing running first. I'm slowy seeing better what to look for, so I'm gonna look more into the ingnition today and see whats going on.

 

[WP29P4A]

I spoke with the O.P. on the phone and this is what we came up with.

The passenger side battery is only connected to the starter. Negative battery cable goes from battery to alternator bracket (engine ground). The positive cable goes from + battery terminal to auxiliary relay/solenoid first then to starter. If he puts power to the starter it spins without powering the trigger/switch wire. There is NO charging wire from alternator going to passenger side battery.

The driver side battery powers the plow and vehicle systems other than starter. The large cables from Driver side battery go straight to the plow, does not look like the driver side battery is grounded to chassis of vehicle.

I have dealt with dual battery systems that have a switch to change which battery is being used, motor homes, boats and a truck or two, but this dual battery diesel setup is a bit different from what I have seen.

Anyone with dual battery system (and knowledge) that can share their views on this would be great? My past experience is telling me that the battery that is powering the ignition would need to be grounded to the chassis to complete the circuit. Is this logic shared?

If you are charging dual batteries do you need a special alternator?

 

[Grit dog]

I recall from many moons ago. Like over 1000 moons...the 6.2 squares had an ignition triggered solenoid that hooked up battery 2 for charging form the alt.
OP's best bet is to just put both batteries in parallel and use them as 1 big battery, or just use 1 battery until he gets this mess figured out.
If both cables go to the plow, 1 has to go hot and 1 to ground. 99% of the plow frame/motor/pump is metal and grounds to the chassis in multiple locations.

In short, eliminate the plow and extra battery (for now, it's confusing the OP). Get the wiring to the distributor right. (This is where his actual issue started, but he appears to have moved on to other "issues.") Cob the fuel pump on, however, don't matter at this point. That needs work anyway so don't waste extra time on it now.
If it ran until messing with wires at the distributor, he likely either knocked loose the key on signal or the + or - to the coil.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Yeah, Eventually I'd like to fix it, but I'll probably get th thing running first. I'm slowy seeing better what to look for, so I'm gonna look more into the ingnition today and see whats going on.

Curious. is your plow stuff hooked up at the moment? I would take that off, because mine if wired the same way WILL drain the battery, puts load on the alternator and if you are trying to get running/ your ignition for some reason cant get just enough from some voltage drop points etc I would say shed that to eliminate a possible hurdle.

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The positive cable was that weld clamp. Notwithstanding, figured to toss out there eliminating it from the pie may help

edit: grit dog had said what I typed up, I forgot to post it hours ago but Im glad it was mentioned.

 

[WP29P4A]

If it ran until messing with wires at the distributor, he likely either knocked loose the key on signal or the + or - to the coil.

He has no power at Dist and he can't trigger the starter, so that should indicate he has no power feeding the Ignition switch. I think he said he has no cab power at all.

Sounds like the driver side battery IS grounded to the chassis and not just the plow pump motor, so at least that is checked off the list.

 

[Grit dog]

Yup 10-4 makes sense

 

[WP29P4A]

Turns out the plow pump is not a chassis ground type of unit. The O.P. connected a ground wire from the driver side battery to the engine and everything powered back up in the cab. He is able to trigger starter with key switch now, just needs to clean up the spaghetti wiring and the fire starter fuel pump and he is good to go.

 

[jfrancom101]

I'm working now for a part to come in the mail tommorow to fix the ground. I but a nicer mechanical fuel pump and I'm going now to get a screw in adapter so that I can use the rubber hoses that I already have. I tried testing with the temporary set up and it turned over nice and strong but I can tell the the carburator isn't hooked up right. The on that was on there before wasn't at all the same and I had to guess a little bit with where to put some hoses. But trying to start it it puffed a mist of gas upward. Could I get some pictures of what the carb and manifold set up should look like? I think it was mentioned earlier that I have the edlesbrock 1405