ESC need someone that knows more about ESC system than I do

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Turbo4whl

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I wasnt trying to imply I was smarter nor do I feel thats the case. Im sorry I came off that way.


Im sorry..


I havent seen knock sensors on anything other than my 3800s
Nothing to be sorry about. Really a compliment to you, and reality for me. Old age brain for me... CRS (Can't remember sh!t)
 

SirRobyn0

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I'm not going to tag ya'll but I've got something to say about all this. So one of the things I find interested is on a modern vehicle a knock sensor is affixed to the engine block, somewhere between one and 4 of them. Most common place is in engine valley under the intake on a dry intake type. Pretty much all modern knock sensors are round and have a hold down bolt running though the middle of it. No modern knock sensor goes though to a coolant jacket. They listen to the block for knock.

But here we are looking at the 305 and the knock sensor is clearly listening to the coolant... So my theory on that is that the sound of a ping must travel pretty well though coolant, there for the sensor can listen to the entire engine from one spot.

So I looked at my wire this morning and mine just looks like a regular wire to me. So if I decide to try moving the sensor to the drivers side, I will find a connector to fit the factory connector and lengthen the wire without cutting just to be on the safe side.
 

AuroraGirl

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I'm not going to tag ya'll but I've got something to say about all this. So one of the things I find interested is on a modern vehicle a knock sensor is affixed to the engine block, somewhere between one and 4 of them. Most common place is in engine valley under the intake on a dry intake type. Pretty much all modern knock sensors are round and have a hold down bolt running though the middle of it. No modern knock sensor goes though to a coolant jacket. They listen to the block for knock.

But here we are looking at the 305 and the knock sensor is clearly listening to the coolant... So my theory on that is that the sound of a ping must travel pretty well though coolant, there for the sensor can listen to the entire engine from one spot.

So I looked at my wire this morning and mine just looks like a regular wire to me. So if I decide to try moving the sensor to the drivers side, I will find a connector to fit the factory connector and lengthen the wire without cutting just to be on the safe side.
I would be careful. maybe use stronger springs than the intended OEM design on dis to play safe
 

Itali83

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I don’t think it has anything to do with the coolant other than there was already a threaded hole in the block to drain coolant and the engineers utilized that hole to mount the knock sensor. I’ve already said it, but just go for it. Move it to the drivers side and run it.

Ben
 

Turbo4whl

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But here we are looking at the 305 and the knock sensor is clearly listening to the coolant... So my theory on that is that the sound of a ping must travel pretty well though coolant, there for the sensor can listen to the entire engine from one spot.
@Itali83 Ben is correct. GM was just looking for a solid mount on an engine already in production.

The knock sensor would work fine on the other side. An original GM sensor has a solid steel, pipe threaded plug, for a mount. Also explains why it is so rusted to the block after 38 years. The sound travels through the metal on this early system.
 

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I would be careful. maybe use stronger springs than the intended OEM design on dis to play safe
We in my current state, I'm running around with the vac can disconnected, because it'll ping during light and medium throttle, but keep in mind my EGR is T.U. at the moment, due to clogged passages, the mechanical advance is stock. Worst thing that will happen is for some reason it won't like being on the D/S and I'll have issues at light and medium throttle. I will be careful, but I won't modify my spark curve, unless I really have to in which case it would be an adjustable vac can more than likely.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the coolant other than there was already a threaded hole in the block to drain coolant and the engineers utilized that hole to mount the knock sensor. I’ve already said it, but just go for it. Move it to the drivers side and run it.

Ben

@Itali83 Ben is correct. GM was just looking for a solid mount on an engine already in production.

The knock sensor would work fine on the other side. An original GM sensor has a solid steel, pipe threaded plug, for a mount. Also explains why it is so rusted to the block after 38 years. The sound travels through the metal on this early system.
Well of course I was just speculating based on no other engine being setup like that, but you guys are probably right, just a hole that was already there.

So ya, I'll give the D/S a shot, but it'll be after I get the EGR thing fixed. I gotta make a movement on that...
 

Trucksareforwork

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Glad this thread is up. I’m dealing with a totally hacked up LE9 305. I suspect a prior owner thought everything related to vacuum switches and esc was “emissions”.

What a waste.

Mine still has the esc distributor but all wiring and vacuum lines were hacked up. I mean everything. Tip in, esc wires, tcc vacuum control (700r4 trans), emissions, everything.

What was left was a relatively smooth idling motor with real pinging issues on the highway.

I will be interested to see if resurrecting esc is worth it. Gonna try.
 

SirRobyn0

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Glad this thread is up. I’m dealing with a totally hacked up LE9 305. I suspect a prior owner thought everything related to vacuum switches and esc was “emissions”.

What a waste.

Mine still has the esc distributor but all wiring and vacuum lines were hacked up. I mean everything. Tip in, esc wires, tcc vacuum control (700r4 trans), emissions, everything.

What was left was a relatively smooth idling motor with real pinging issues on the highway.

I will be interested to see if resurrecting esc is worth it. Gonna try.
Well I'm sure you've read though the thread so you know my ESC is not functioning. I need to get my EGR valve working, then ESC. I have another non-related issue I've got to fix before that now too..... You know old trucks, I love mine and it's a nice truck in good shape, but work must be done. As a stop gap you maybe able to disconnect your vacuum advice to reduce that pinging your getting.
 

Trucksareforwork

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Yeah. I actually think I got lucky with the truck in general. Despite being hacked up; the insides of the engine are pretty clean and things like egr are functional (but was not connected when I acquired the truck. As I said I think the po hated anything vacuum driven except brakes!). I’m lucky in that I know SBCs after putting together a couple of older ones, but the ESC thing is new to me. I’m hoping the esc controller isn’t shot and the reason for that part of the hack. Based on what I’ve seen the PO hacked things whether working or not.

I will try to repost on experience.
 

SirRobyn0

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Yeah. I actually think I got lucky with the truck in general. Despite being hacked up; the insides of the engine are pretty clean and things like egr are functional (but was not connected when I acquired the truck. As I said I think the po hated anything vacuum driven except brakes!). I’m lucky in that I know SBCs after putting together a couple of older ones, but the ESC thing is new to me. I’m hoping the esc controller isn’t shot and the reason for that part of the hack. Based on what I’ve seen the PO hacked things whether working or not.

I will try to repost on experience.
FYI, nearly everything in the ESC system is still available. Some of the vacuum check valves, and delay units are no longer in production but you can get by without those. The module, distributor parts, knock sensor and tip in are still made, so replacement parts can still be had.
 

Bextreme04

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I'm not going to tag ya'll but I've got something to say about all this. So one of the things I find interested is on a modern vehicle a knock sensor is affixed to the engine block, somewhere between one and 4 of them. Most common place is in engine valley under the intake on a dry intake type. Pretty much all modern knock sensors are round and have a hold down bolt running though the middle of it. No modern knock sensor goes though to a coolant jacket. They listen to the block for knock.

But here we are looking at the 305 and the knock sensor is clearly listening to the coolant... So my theory on that is that the sound of a ping must travel pretty well though coolant, there for the sensor can listen to the entire engine from one spot.

So I looked at my wire this morning and mine just looks like a regular wire to me. So if I decide to try moving the sensor to the drivers side, I will find a connector to fit the factory connector and lengthen the wire without cutting just to be on the safe side.
The knock sensors on the earlier SBC/BBC motors is pretty much anywhere on the block, because it doesn't necessarily matter WHEN it detects the knock event. When they went to vortec on the BBC in 1996, they went to dual knock sensors, one on each side of the block near the motor mounts. This is also just a single wire and it will ground when a knock is detected. The timing on which sensor detects a knock, combined with the crank and cam signal allows the computer to make a refined decision on timing and knock in a specific cylinder. The dual sensors and crank/cam position sensors are necessary for OBD2 and specific cylinder misfire detection, which is why it shows up on engines around 1996. For a system like yours that can't really tell what the crank/cam position is, a single sensor is all that is required. It just pulls timing across the board and gives no feedback on WHEN the misfire happens.
 

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So my theory on that is that the sound of a ping must travel pretty well though coolant,
This is a fact. Sound travels really well in water. One of the weird things I have done in my profession, was to install underwater speakers in a pool, and they sounded amazing.

I do not know if this is what GM's intention was with the placement of the nox sensor, or like others have said it was just an existing free location.
 

Bextreme04

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Interestingly enough.. this is not necessarily accurate. The black box GMT-400's use two knock sensors, one on each side(at least in the L29 454 version). The Gen III LS motors have two in the valley cover and the Gen IV ones have two not in the valley cover(they wouldn't have room with the AFM/DOD stuff in there), although there is some variability in that as well.
 

SirRobyn0

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This is a fact. Sound travels really well in water. One of the weird things I have done in my profession, was to install underwater speakers in a pool, and they sounded amazing.

I do not know if this is what GM's intention was with the placement of the nox sensor, or like others have said it was just an existing free location.
I'm sure you read in the thread there was some speculation of that. We just changed the motor in one of the later vortec 350 engines, and interestingly enough, one knock sensor, same location in the water jacket. Does kind of make a guy wonder if there is something more to it than a premade hole. I can see that back when they were introduced, but years after a major engine redesign and it's still there? Though the embossment for the fuel pump is still there at least on this motor there are no holes, so they did that at some point, why not change the sensor location unless there is a reason.

We'll never know for sure unless someone from a design team that worked on knock sensor placement were to tell us.
 

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