ESC need someone that knows more about ESC system than I do

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
As discussed before, my '82 has a shielded wire to the sensor. Most important is to have a good connection to the core wire as the sensor is actually a microphone generating current.

For the test I was shown hitting the exhaust manifold with a wrench. I have always used a 3/4" wrench that may have a different sound than the hammer.
More tonight and I'll research this a little but maybe you know off hand. So my knock sensor is connected with a blue wire and is not shielded in anyway. Double checked the module wiring as well. It's that blue wire you can see
You must be registered for see images attach


I'm thinking there may have been a change between 82 and 84 but I will research that a little tonight. I tried to do the tap test with an adjustable wrench. I swear I could hear the idle speed drop back a bit, but when I climbed up on the support with the timing light I could not see the timing being pulled back. Possibly I can't tap fast enough when I'm up top or the sound of the engine speed dropping back was an auditory illusion because of the tapping noise I was making. We will see. Looks likely I'll need to go out tonight so will see if there is a noticeable differance.
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Definitely have to go to town tonight. I'll take the truck to test it, but will have the wife with me so I likely will not be able to do a lot of playing with it in route.

So one possibility is my knock sensor which has been rolling around the cab of the truck for the last 3 years isn't any good. Also the used ESC module might not be any good, which I really wanted the harness piece so if that's the case I'll order a new one. Not really sure that the module can be tested I'd assume test everything else around it. So if it doesn't work tonight on the road tomorrow I will check all the connections including inside the distributor and go from there!
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Ok I've done some reading tonight and have some tests to run. I'm going to lay them out here both so I can reference it tomorrow but also for anyone else that might came along and find any of this stuff useful.

First I want to start with this: Piezoelectric microphone utilize contact between a diaphragm and piezoelectric materials to produce a very small electric signal.

Based on that definition and the apparent differences in the knock sensor wire between @Turbo4whl truck and mine. Both our trucks call for the same knock sensor and the same module. I think that difference is simply GM decided the shielding isn't necessary.

On to testing. Our knock sensor should show a resistance of about 95K to 105K ohms.
Under dash pin testing: Brown wire ground, obviously needs to be a good ground.
Pink 12 volts key on
The other connections are for the pick up coil and module, which is there was a break in any of those the truck would not likely run, still it might be worthwhile to run continuity tests on those wires. Last is the tip in switch which could literally fall off the truck and the system would still detect knock, it just wouldn't pull back timing briefly when the throttle is mashed.
Check to make sure all connections are clean and tight.
Knock sensor test. Our knock sensors produce a small amount of AC voltage which can be read on a multimeter. According to what I have just read the knock sensor will produce a small amount of voltage anytime the engine is running, it just produces a larger amount (still very small) when pinging is present. So that is how the system works and why a ESC module is necessary. The ESC module monitors the knock sensor voltage, to be clear it reads what the knock sensor is producing for voltage and at whatever the cut off point is when voltage gets above that it does something with the purple wire to the ignition module. Whether it feeds voltage in our grounds it out I don't know, and while it would be nice to know it's not imperative. So working with the ESC module unplugged and bypassed by jumping the purple and green wires together, fire the truck up. Revving the engine to 2,000 RPM, connect a DVM to the brown wire and blue wire with the brown being the negative and blue being positive. Should see more than 80 millivolts, this is .080 AC volts NOT DC VOLTS.

So using the above tests I should be able to check the knock sensor, check the wiring, and by testing everything around it, see if the module itself is at fault or not.

That's what I've learned.
 

Trucksareforwork

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2022
Posts
245
Reaction score
475
Location
Spartanburg SC
First Name
Geoff
Truck Year
1985
Truck Model
C10
Engine Size
305
I went through trying to revive esc in my rusty rebuild and actually found that the truck ran better without it (a lot better).

That said, if you are in need I do have a working esc module that I picked up and subsequently have just lying around and would let it go for a reasonable recoup of my investment. The one still installed in my truck is dead but I don’t care because just a bit of driving around with the working one told me I liked it better without the system operating.

For what it’s worth: The biggest thing that reduced pinging for me was ensuring the kick down vacuum switch circuit for my 700r4 was operating. I have tall gears in the rear end (2.73) and before fixing the vacuum switch the trans would not unlock or kick down from high gear…leading to lugging and pinging.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,592
Reaction score
9,099
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Robyn I m super busy today but thought this may be your day to do something. Go back to your original distributor,replace the module with a d1941 module I think that crosses to standard lx331. Anyway wire it like a 4 prong the 5th prong is a 5 degree retard when grounded. Figure out how u want to control ground,you are now the esc computer. Time like factory,pull 5 degrees when necessary. It is not a truck 5 pin, its a bop weird 5pin from early 80s.
.
 
Last edited:

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
I went through trying to revive esc in my rusty rebuild and actually found that the truck ran better without it (a lot better).

That said, if you are in need I do have a working esc module that I picked up and subsequently have just lying around and would let it go for a reasonable recoup of my investment. The one still installed in my truck is dead but I don’t care because just a bit of driving around with the working one told me I liked it better without the system operating.

For what it’s worth: The biggest thing that reduced pinging for me was ensuring the kick down vacuum switch circuit for my 700r4 was operating. I have tall gears in the rear end (2.73) and before fixing the vacuum switch the trans would not unlock or kick down from high gear…leading to lugging and pinging.
My transmission controls work properly with one modification, so I have a switch in the cab to override the vacuum controls for the converter. But that's not when I have pinging issues. My pinging issues are in the higher RPM range, generally got to be over 3K with the secondaries open. So it's not a problem if I'm light on the throttle, but if I tow my trailer or haul a heavy load it's an issue.

At this point I've backed the base timing down a couple degrees to try to mitigate it.

Over time it seems to be getting worse. The truck has an edlebrock carburetor on it the PO installed and it's been fine. I did rebuild it about 1,000 miles ago because I thought that the secondaries might be clogged a little causing it to be lean and causing the pinging from that. I might go up a jet size just to see if it helps.

Also in full disclosure I have timing anomaly. Hook a timing light up to the truck with the vacuum advance disconnected, fire the engine and it's at 4DBTC. As you start to increase the throttle the timing will drop 4 degrees. It will do this with the ESC bypassed, so it's not from that, and it will stay at the dropped timing until th mechanical advance kicks in. I replaced the timing chain thinking it was slop in the chain but that made no change.

One of the things I did today was to pull the cap and rotor off to inspect the distributor weights and such which looks fine. Not new but not shot either. I did observe this bit of play in the video. I've got a new non-ESC GM HEI distributor on shelf at work so I will compare them. In the first video the play you see is before the mechanical advance moves, and I'm doing it with the lightest touch. I almost think it might be in the distributor gear or the pin or something along that line.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

And with the rotor on, notice that I'm using a very light touch.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Maybe what I'm seeing is normal. Like I said I need to compare it to the one at work.

I'm about ready to swap my vacuum advance, module, weights and springs on to the one at work, effectively converting it into an ESC distributor and seeing if that makes improvement.
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Robyn I m super busy today but thought this may be your day to do something. Go back to your original distributor,replace the module with a d1941 module I think that crosses to standard lx331. Anyway wire it like a 4 prong the 5th prong is a 5 degree retard when grounded. Figure out how u want to control ground,you are now the esc computer. Time like factory,pull 5 degrees when necessary. It is not a truck 5 pin, its a bop weird 5pin from early 80s.
.
Thanks for that. I really don't like the idea of a manual retard, because sometimes I have to let my employee on the farm drive it. I do not like to let him drive it, but it happens a couple times a year. With that said I may just do this as it would be better than nothing.

I know your super busy but I trust and respect you opinion so if you could tell me what you think of the 4 degree timing anomaly and the play in the videos on post #126 in this thread I'd super appreciate it. Thanks for your time.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,592
Reaction score
9,099
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Too busy for videos right now. Use 2 grounds.1 for u. Toggle to ground,always retarded when someone else is driving
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Ok I just ordered a new ESC type distributor which I will see at the shop tomorrow at 1PM. I need to stop mucking around and fix something on this truck. I'm not confident in this distributor so I'll start with that, I can always return it if I decide not to use it.

I've also ordered the module Rick suggests so I'll have it on hand if I need it, if not I'll return it.

I can get a new ESC computer for about $45 and it's at the local warehouse but I can't order it online so I'll do that tomorrow morning. From there I will simply use what I need to get this thing straightened out as best I can.

I will see what I have for edelbrock jet hanging around at the shop as I have some consern that the secondaries might be a little lean

It's very likely that I'll need to tow the trailer over the pass next weekend so I really need to not be pinging up a storm or it's going to be a long slow drive.
 

RanchWelder

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Posts
802
Reaction score
1,152
Location
Earth
First Name
--------
Truck Year
87
Truck Model
Blazer
Engine Size
355ci
I removed my ESC on my 85 305, c10. When I timed it where it made decent power it pinged bad, when I timed it where I had no ping it suffered badly in the power department. When I swapped my ESC distributor weights, advance can, springs etc. Into the non ESC distributor I could live with it but still not 100 percent happy.I personally have 1 more trick up my sleeve if that does not work I am going back to ESC. A D1941 five pin module, the 5th pin retarded timing when it is grounded. I bought one I have yet to install it because I've been busy and haven't quite decided how I'm going to ground the pin. A hobbs switch possibly so at certain vacuum levels my distributor retards, a throttle switch so at certain throttle conditions the distributor retards or just a toggle so I can retard the timing at will. Anyway do not confuse the D1941 with the 5 pin module in Chevy trucks although they are both 5 pins they don't work the same. Had I known what I now know I would not have swapped distributors to begin with, ESC is easy to bypass without a distributor swap and you keep most of your original distributor functionality.Also have you checked that the EGR functions?Plugged EGR ports will cause ping also.
Don't mean to interupt your thread...

This is the distributor I was speaking about... It has the 5 pin module...
The Number on it is 1103465. If I'm not mistaken, it is the ESC distributor, please correct me if somebody can cross-reference the number...
Not certain if the module in here uses the 5th pin to ground or hot though..
They can be either or...

The weights on top are 60 and the center is 469...

If it's any use to you later, you know where it is...
Maybe the parts can help you build a backup for spare... ?
I made a mistake saying it came from a cross fire... the numbers do not match what somebody used it for because it has a tall large cap, not the low profile the crossfire's used... coil is on in too...

Good luck on your trip...
 
Last edited:

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Don't mean to interupt your thread...

This is the distributor I was speaking about... It has the 5 pin module...
The Number on it is 1103465. If I'm not mistaken, it is the ESC distributor, please correct me if somebody can cross-reference the number...
Not certain if the module in here uses the 5th pin to ground or hot though..
They can be either or...

The weights on top are 60 and the center is 469...

If it's any use to you later, you know where it is...
Maybe the parts can help you build a backup for spare... ?
I made a mistake saying it came from a cross fire... the numbers do not match what somebody used it for because it has a tall large cap, not the low profile the crossfire's used... coil is on in too...

Good luck on your trip...
Thanks, I'd like to call you by your first name right now but it's not on your profile thingy. I get it, I'm a pretty private person too. I truly appreciate the offer and maybe I will take you up on it for a spare we'll see. IDK on the number but if it's 5 pins, has #60 weights, and a 469 center yes, it's a ESC distributor.

Rick might be interested in it as well.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,592
Reaction score
9,099
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Thanks, I'd like to call you by your first name right now but it's not on your profile thingy. I get it, I'm a pretty private person too. I truly appreciate the offer and maybe I will take you up on it for a spare we'll see. IDK on the number but if it's 5 pins, has #60 weights, and a 469 center yes, it's a ESC distributor.

Rick might be interested in it as well.
Robyn you need it, if you can use it,work something out with the man,I'm good. But remember the 5 pin I was talking about earlier is not the same module.
 

RanchWelder

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2023
Posts
802
Reaction score
1,152
Location
Earth
First Name
--------
Truck Year
87
Truck Model
Blazer
Engine Size
355ci
My post count is almost at 50.

Pardon me, I woke concerned my privacy might need to be better protected, when woke up this morning and I replaced it with dashes in my sig.
-Matt
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,592
Reaction score
9,099
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Matt I'm Rick nice to meet you sir. If Robyn and you don't go somewhere on this P.M. me I'll work something out to have a spare. Have an awesome night.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
44,395
Posts
956,471
Members
36,693
Latest member
markyarb
Top