ESC need someone that knows more about ESC system than I do

[AuroraGirl]

Do you mean LT4?

No, LS4.
The joke is that he would have to figure out making his truck a FWD LS vehicle lol. The weight of the trucks would absolutely nuke the original transaxle even if you figured it out. The first pic is the trans it should have vs the trans it has(left to right)

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then there is the trans it should have(bolted to it) next to that OG. anemic

Then there is the width put into perspective with the "right" trans

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[AuroraGirl]

No, no one asked, but I'm glad you shared. I'm seriously interested in this and will do some more research on it this evening. I don't like spending money, but it does look pretty attractive. The only thing that would be nice is if it ran a knock sensor.

This is and has been the catch 22 for me on the ESC system. I either need to rebuild a system with a lot of obsolete parts in it, or go to a standard HEI distributor, of which I have one waiting to be installed, but with that standard HEI distributor comes a much tamer advance curve, which generally results in lack of power and economy in the 305. So for less cost than attempting to rebuild the ESC system I could run this box.

YES I know I could run an adjustable vac advance can, and change weights and springs to a similar effect, but it looks like the CB box has the ability to provide a much more variable advance curve.

I will think about this thanks!

you could get a spring and weight kit and adjustable vac can too

 

[SirRobyn0]

you could get a spring and weight kit and adjustable vac can too

Yes, somewhere in there I even said that. So the thing is the programable box will allow much more finer tuning and it'll hold that tune vs springs which are a wear item. So with the box you can have XX total timing at X RPM and curve it in anyway you want. With a vac advance your stuck with well vacuum (over simplified statement). Springs and weights once there in they are in. So if the mechanical advance is all in at say 2K (I'm going to use 2K as an example nothing more not saying that is or isn't what someone may or may not want) Anyhow at 2K mechanical is all in no matter how high you rev, the only way to take timing away after that point is if the vac advance is in at 2K as well, you step on the gas the vac advance drops out timing comes down. But with the box you could set total timing at 2K and curve it before and after as your heart desires, you could put a lump up somewhere if you wanted or a dip down. My understanding is you can store a few profiles, so you could have a curve setup for economy and another one for hauling loads with the load hauler conservative, to avoid ping. It's a pretty neat looking system, and looks like it can do more than springs and weights can.

BUT, here's the BUT I've come to in the last few hours. Neat system yes. Cost is good for what it is. If it was capable of running a knock sensor to retard ignition in real time I'd give it serious consideration, but I think my money and time for my goals would be better spent else where. Springs, weights and adjustable vac advance will be good enough and close enough for me given the other projects I have on the truck I just don't see me finding the time to install the box, and then learn the software to tune it.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Yes, somewhere in there I even said that. So the thing is the programable box will allow much more finer tuning and it'll hold that tune vs springs which are a wear item. So with the box you can have XX total timing at X RPM and curve it in anyway you want. With a vac advance your stuck with well vacuum (over simplified statement). Springs and weights once there in they are in. So if the mechanical advance is all in at say 2K (I'm going to use 2K as an example nothing more not saying that is or isn't what someone may or may not want) Anyhow at 2K mechanical is all in no matter how high you rev, the only way to take timing away after that point is if the vac advance is in at 2K as well, you step on the gas the vac advance drops out timing comes down. But with the box you could set total timing at 2K and curve it before and after as your heart desires, you could put a lump up somewhere if you wanted or a dip down. My understanding is you can store a few profiles, so you could have a curve setup for economy and another one for hauling loads with the load hauler conservative, to avoid ping. It's a pretty neat looking system, and looks like it can do more than springs and weights can.

BUT, here's the BUT I've come to in the last few hours. Neat system yes. Cost is good for what it is. If it was capable of running a knock sensor to retard ignition in real time I'd give it serious consideration, but I think my money and time for my goals would be better spent else where. Springs, weights and adjustable vac advance will be good enough and close enough for me given the other projects I have on the truck I just don't see me finding the time to install the box, and then learn the software to tune it.

I was gonna say, stronger springs and the proper vacuum advance can can give you a wide range which advance comes in but If it has to come in quick, then a stop + light springss would do that to maybe

 

[SirRobyn0]

I was gonna say, stronger springs and the proper vacuum advance can can give you a wide range which advance comes in but If it has to come in quick, then a stop + light springss would do that to maybe

As for a daily driver 305 I'm much less concerned about precision but as you know the 305 needs as much timing as it can possibly take without pinging, in order to get it's best mileage and power. I think for me a stock standard HEI distributor and adjustable vac can will be good enough. If not, then I'll play with springs. IDK to much to do and not enough time.

 

[Catbox]

As far as learning the system, junior is no computer genius.
Just a regular guy with dirty hands that likes to work on his cars.

He used the stock tune file and it started right up.
From there he has made a little tweak or two, but that is it so far.
He does need to do some more work on the file, but it starts easy and runs great so far.

 

[SirRobyn0]

As far as learning the system, junior is no computer genius.
Just a regular guy with dirty hands that likes to work on his cars.

He used the stock tune file and it started right up.
From there he has made a little tweak or two, but that is it so far.
He does need to do some more work on the file, but it starts easy and runs great so far.

Ok good to know! I still think that the system is pretty neat, and I'd probably enjoy the benefits. I think I'm going to file this under down the road or if I'm not happy with the results of the standard HEI unit on the 305.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Well I stuck the new HEI distributor in this evening before I left work. Why is it that always the worst clusters occur on my truck? GRRR. Probably because I did it while I knew I had limited time. Anyhow. 2 issues. Both my fault.

So dropped it in and fired it up all is well so far. Set the timing for 8 BTC. I reasoned that most guys with 350's are in the 8 - 12 range, keep in mind I've got the 305. Yea, I wasn't thinking, that's to much base timing. Sticker calls for 4 BTC, we'll be going back to that. Because I needed to get to the farm all I had time to do at this point was to pull over and twist the distributor. Which was good enough to keep it from pinging. Tomorrow before I leave for work I'll set it back to 4.

Next, once I was down the road and idling in traffic I figured I'd turn the radio on and play some music off my phone. Radio sounds terrible. First I though my phone to radio cord had an issue, so I put the radio on, yep the noise is there both on AM and FM, turn truck off, radio on, no noise. Ok, that's it the new distributor must not have the noise capacitor inside it. Dang it, in my rush to get it installed I didn't think to check.

So setting the timing is no big deal, and the capacitor really isn't either, but boy the capacitor would have been easier before I put the distributor in the truck.....

 

[SirRobyn0]

Change of plans. The ESC distributor is going back in today before I go home.

To anyone that has put a standard HEI distributor in a 305 and had it work out you are extremely lucky!

So here is what happened this morning. I fired it up warmed it up and set the timing for 4 BTDC. I was still getting some ping but thought for a while that I might be able to put an adjustable vac can on it. Then I had to do the hills headed into town. It was terrible. The pinging was ridiculous. I had to pull over on the side of the road and gave the distributor a big twist to retard it so I could get to work without blowing her up. I'm sure it's somewhere in the area of 10 ATDC right now. Anyhow the ESC distributor is going back in today before I go home. If there is any good news this will be a good time to give the advance a good going over before I stick it back in. Since it runs so much better with the ESC distributor even though the ESC system isn't working the only thing I can think is that there must be pretty big differences in the way the distributor advances are curved.

So I'll go back to the ESC distributor and run the vac advance disconnected until I get the ESC fixed.

One thing I've got to do is try a new knock sensor and the old one is fused to the block, so that should be fun.

 

[Bextreme04]

One thing I've got to do is try a new knock sensor and the old one is fused to the block, so that should be fun.

I'm sure you already know this, but start spraying it with penetrating oil now. The more heat cycles you put on it with penetrating oil sprayed on it, the better it will be when you get around to trying to get it out. Last step would be putting the liquid wrench on it and get the sensor nice and cherry red, then let it cool before trying to twist it out.

 

[SirRobyn0]

@Bextreme04 Yes, but it's still good to get those reminders. Penetrating oil has failed in the past so I'll be skipping to the liquid wrench when the time comes, which hopefully will be this week. I'm already sick of messing with the ignition system on this thing, and part of that is past work. I just want it done and working properly. The trouble is time. I have such limited to to work on it right now and I just wasted some screwing around with a new distributor that I though would be helpful, but really just caused me more issues!

 

[Bextreme04]

@Bextreme04 Yes, but it's still good to get those reminders. Penetrating oil has failed in the past so I'll be skipping to the liquid wrench when the time comes, which hopefully will be this week. I'm already sick of messing with the ignition system on this thing, and part of that is past work. I just want it done and working properly. The trouble is time. I have such limited to to work on it right now and I just wasted some screwing around with a new distributor that I though would be helpful, but really just caused me more issues!

I hear that. I've got a bunch of home renovation stuff going on, and need to do some stuff to the wife's daily and our travel trailer in preparation for summer camping, and work stuff, and of course my project vehicles all need stuff...... and my wife sent me a link to a decent looking 67 Buick Riviera(which is obviously permission for me to buy it.... right?!?!?)

My blower motor started squealing bad on the 80 K25, I don't really have time to mess with it right now so I'm driving the honda instead

 

[SirRobyn0]

Well I stuck the ESC distributor back in on my lunch. Nothing more to report yet, I got the truck running but did not have the time to time it. So I will time it tonight before I go home and hopefully I'll be back to where I was. The mechanical advance is clearly not in the best of shape in the ESC distributor, it moves okish. I've seen it move when revving the engine during the timing procedure so I'll have to do something about that in the long term as well. Right now job one is getting it back to where it was, #2 will be getting the ESC system functioning and then I'll decide what to do about the advance in the distributor. Part of me is thinking that I might try swapping parts from the non-ESC dist in IF they appear the same, but for now getting the ESC system functioning is more important.

 

[SirRobyn0]

It's amazing to me how quickly things can get to crap sometimes.... Especially when working on an old truck or piece of equipment.

Well I made a few new discoveries, and have some additional work to do.

Still despite that I see the value to the ESC system and would like to make it functional again. So here is the deal.

Last night driving it home after reinstalling the ESC distributor I noticed some very light pinging. Probably light enough that I either had not noticed it or considered it normal previously. But keep in mind after Monday's ping fest, I was really scrutinizing it. But I'm sitting in the truck thinking how could it even be pinging lightly at light throttle with the vac can disconnected?!?!? Then I remembered something one of the guys at work said to me which was "does you EGR valve work" To which I said yes, because IDK, maybe 6 - 9 months ago I checked it and it would nearly stall the engine if opened at idle. So last night I checked it. Hooked the vacuum line for the EGR valve up to manifold vacuum, EGR valve opens fully, no idle change what so ever. So part of this problem is plugged EGR ports in the manifold. Great.....

Well I'll going to try all the tricks to open up the EGR ports, but I might just step up for an edelbrock intake manifold since the PO put an Edelbrock carb on it and I have kept it. The fun just keeps coming.....

 

[Turbo4whl]

It's amazing to me how quickly things can get to crap sometimes.... Especially when working on an old truck or piece of equipment.

Well I made a few new discoveries, and have some additional work to do.

Still despite that I see the value to the ESC system and would like to make it functional again. So here is the deal.

Last night driving it home after reinstalling the ESC distributor I noticed some very light pinging. Probably light enough that I either had not noticed it or considered it normal previously. But keep in mind after Monday's ping fest, I was really scrutinizing it. But I'm sitting in the truck thinking how could it even be pinging lightly at light throttle with the vac can disconnected?!?!? Then I remembered something one of the guys at work said to me which was "does you EGR valve work" To which I said yes, because IDK, maybe 6 - 9 months ago I checked it and it would nearly stall the engine if opened at idle. So last night I checked it. Hooked the vacuum line for the EGR valve up to manifold vacuum, EGR valve opens fully, no idle change what so ever. So part of this problem is plugged EGR ports in the manifold. Great.....

Well I'll going to try all the tricks to open up the EGR ports, but I might just step up for an edelbrock intake manifold since the PO put an Edelbrock carb on it and I have kept it. The fun just keeps coming.....

Reading through this again, there is part of the ESC you have wrong, or it is different than my 1982 305 system. I looked at vacuum diagrams posted for the 1984 305 and they have the same vacuum to the distributor as my 305.

The vacuum advance uses what is called trapped vacuum spark. It only traps and holds vacuum to the advance when the engine is stone cold. The vacuum is sourced from both manifold and ported and held by a check valve. It uses the strongest vacuum. As the engine warms, the thermal vacuum switch now connects the vacuum past the check valve. I believe to just ported vacuum. (need to check that, can't remember) There is a cindered iron bleed on the thermal switch that allows the trapped vacuum to bleed off if the engine stalls when cold.

The ESC has no electrical control to the vacuum system that goes to the distributor advance. The ESC delays the spark timing electrically 4* when triggered. Another 4* if still triggered. Yes the ESC does see engine vacuum, and uses that to control the spark timing too, electrically, not by changing the vacuum to the distributor.