Edelbrock 1405 carb running rich

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Blackbeard44

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NO!!!! vacuum advance is used at low load conditions where a lean mixture and high timing can lead to high efficiency with no detonation. When you are driving at cruise, your vacuum is actually very high, like at idle. When you set it to ported, instead of manifold vacuum, you will only get vacuum advance at high throttle position and low engine vacuum... which is not at all what you want.

ive never seen one hooked up like that from the factory, but maybe that is what his truck needs to run again
 

Bextreme04

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ive never seen one hooked up like that from the factory, but maybe that is what his truck needs to run again
Everything pre mid/late 70's was full manifold. My 1980 HD emissions 350 was connected to the drivers side lower port.. which is manifold vacuum. There are quite a few articles out there... including at least one from a guy claiming to be a GM ignition engineer, that explain why the ported vacuum was used to drive up exhaust gas temps to reduce emissions in certain regimes and why that was a bandaid that wasn't very good for the engine or its efficiency. If your distributor is set up for ported vacuum, it will likely run OK on ported.. but not great. If you have a replacement or junkyard HEI in there... it's probably not going to be very happy.

Bottom line is you want to have around 12 degrees at idle(mechanically) and 34-36 at 3000+rpm(mechanically) at full throttle. Any more than that at full throttle with a rich mixture will cause problems and leave power on the table. Lean, low throttle conditions have a slower burn that needs more advance... so you can add 10-15 degrees of advance under those conditions. A properly set up distributor can give you all that running off manifold vacuum. You NEED to know what the mechanical and vacuum advance of the distributor is to set it up right though.

Here's a quote from one of those articles:

As many of you are aware, timing and vacuum advance is one of my favorite subjects, as I was involved in the development of some of those systems in my GM days and I understand it. Many people don't, as there has been very little written about it anywhere that makes sense, and as a result, a lot of folks are under the misunderstanding that vacuum advance somehow compromises performance. Nothing could be further from the truth. I finally sat down the other day and wrote up a primer on the subject, with the objective of helping more folks to understand vacuum advance and how it works together with initial timing and centrifugal advance to optimize all-around operation and performance. I have this as a Word document if anyone wants it sent to them - I've cut-and-pasted it here; it's long, but hopefully it's also informative.

TIMING AND VACUUM ADVANCE 101

The most important concept to understand is that lean mixtures, such as at idle and steady highway cruise, take longer to burn than rich mixtures; idle in particular, as idle mixture is affected by exhaust gas dilution. This requires that lean mixtures have "the fire lit" earlier in the compression cycle (spark timing advanced), allowing more burn time so that peak cylinder pressure is reached just after TDC for peak efficiency and reduced exhaust gas temperature (wasted combustion energy). Rich mixtures, on the other hand, burn faster than lean mixtures, so they need to have "the fire lit" later in the compression cycle (spark timing retarded slightly) so maximum cylinder pressure is still achieved at the same point after TDC as with the lean mixture, for maximum efficiency.

The centrifugal advance system in a distributor advances spark timing purely as a function of engine rpm (irrespective of engine load or operating conditions), with the amount of advance and the rate at which it comes in determined by the weights and springs on top of the autocam mechanism. The amount of advance added by the distributor, combined with initial static timing, is "total timing" (i.e., the 34-36 degrees at high rpm that most SBC's like). Vacuum advance has absolutely nothing to do with total timing or performance, as when the throttle is opened, manifold vacuum drops essentially to zero, and the vacuum advance drops out entirely; it has no part in the "total timing" equation.

At idle, the engine needs additional spark advance in order to fire that lean, diluted mixture earlier in order to develop maximum cylinder pressure at the proper point, so the vacuum advance can (connected to manifold vacuum, not "ported" vacuum - more on that aberration later) is activated by the high manifold vacuum, and adds about 15 degrees of spark advance, on top of the initial static timing setting (i.e., if your static timing is at 10 degrees, at idle it's actually around 25 degrees with the vacuum advance connected). The same thing occurs at steady-state highway cruise; the mixture is lean, takes longer to burn, the load on the engine is low, the manifold vacuum is high, so the vacuum advance is again deployed, and if you had a timing light set up so you could see the balancer as you were going down the highway, you'd see about 50 degrees advance (10 degrees initial, 20-25 degrees from the centrifugal advance, and 15 degrees from the vacuum advance) at steady-state cruise (it only takes about 40 horsepower to cruise at 50mph).

When you accelerate, the mixture is instantly enriched (by the accelerator pump, power valve, etc.), burns faster, doesn't need the additional spark advance, and when the throttle plates open, manifold vacuum drops, and the vacuum advance can returns to zero, retarding the spark timing back to what is provided by the initial static timing plus the centrifugal advance provided by the distributor at that engine rpm; the vacuum advance doesn't come back into play until you back off the gas and manifold vacuum increases again as you return to steady-state cruise, when the mixture again becomes lean.

The key difference is that centrifugal advance (in the distributor autocam via weights and springs) is purely rpm-sensitive; nothing changes it except changes in rpm. Vacuum advance, on the other hand, responds to engine load and rapidly-changing operating conditions, providing the correct degree of spark advance at any point in time based on engine load, to deal with both lean and rich mixture conditions. By today's terms, this was a relatively crude mechanical system, but it did a good job of optimizing engine efficiency, throttle response, fuel economy, and idle cooling, with absolutely ZERO effect on wide-open throttle performance, as vacuum advance is inoperative under wide-open throttle conditions. In modern cars with computerized engine controllers, all those sensors and the controller change both mixture and spark timing 50 to 100 times per second, and we don't even HAVE a distributor any more - it's all electronic.

Now, to the widely-misunderstood manifold-vs.-ported vacuum aberration. After 30-40 years of controlling vacuum advance with full manifold vacuum, along came emissions requirements, years before catalytic converter technology had been developed, and all manner of crude band-aid systems were developed to try and reduce hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust stream. One of these band-aids was "ported spark", which moved the vacuum pickup orifice in the carburetor venturi from below the throttle plate (where it was exposed to full manifold vacuum at idle) to above the throttle plate, where it saw no manifold vacuum at all at idle. This meant the vacuum advance was inoperative at idle (retarding spark timing from its optimum value), and these applications also had VERY low initial static timing (usually 4 degrees or less, and some actually were set at 2 degrees AFTER TDC). This was done in order to increase exhaust gas temperature (due to "lighting the fire late") to improve the effectiveness of the "afterburning" of hydrocarbons by the air injected into the exhaust manifolds by the A.I.R. system; as a result, these engines ran like crap, and an enormous amount of wasted heat energy was transferred through the exhaust port walls into the coolant, causing them to run hot at idle - cylinder pressure fell off, engine temperatures went up, combustion efficiency went down the drain, and fuel economy went down with it.

If you look at the centrifugal advance calibrations for these "ported spark, late-timed" engines, you'll see that instead of having 20 degrees of advance, they had up to 34 degrees of advance in the distributor, in order to get back to the 34-36 degrees "total timing" at high rpm wide-open throttle to get some of the performance back. The vacuum advance still worked at steady-state highway cruise (lean mixture = low emissions), but it was inoperative at idle, which caused all manner of problems - "ported vacuum" was strictly an early, pre-converter crude emissions strategy, and nothing more.

What about the Harry high-school non-vacuum advance polished billet "whizbang" distributors you see in the Summit and Jeg's catalogs? They're JUNK on a street-driven car, but some people keep buying them because they're "race car" parts, so they must be "good for my car" - they're NOT. "Race cars" run at wide-open throttle, rich mixture, full load, and high rpm all the time, so they don't need a system (vacuum advance) to deal with the full range of driving conditions encountered in street operation. Anyone driving a street-driven car without manifold-connected vacuum advance is sacrificing idle cooling, throttle response, engine efficiency, and fuel economy, probably because they don't understand what vacuum advance is, how it works, and what it's for - there are lots of long-time experienced "mechanics" who don't understand the principles and operation of vacuum advance either, so they're not alone.

Vacuum advance calibrations are different between stock engines and modified engines, especially if you have a lot of cam and have relatively low manifold vacuum at idle. Most stock vacuum advance cans aren’t fully-deployed until they see about 15” Hg. Manifold vacuum, so those cans don’t work very well on a modified engine; with less than 15” Hg. at a rough idle, the stock can will “dither” in and out in response to the rapidly-changing manifold vacuum, constantly varying the amount of vacuum advance, which creates an unstable idle. Modified engines with more cam that generate less than 15” Hg. of vacuum at idle need a vacuum advance can that’s fully-deployed at least 1”, preferably 2” of vacuum less than idle vacuum level so idle advance is solid and stable; the Echlin #VC-1810 advance can (about $10 at NAPA) provides the same amount of advance as the stock can (15 degrees), but is fully-deployed at only 8” of vacuum, so there is no variation in idle timing even with a stout cam.

For peak engine performance, driveability, idle cooling and efficiency in a street-driven car, you need vacuum advance, connected to full manifold vacuum. Absolutely. Positively. Don't ask Summit or Jeg's about it – they don’t understand it, they're on commission, and they want to sell "race car" parts.
 

Blackbeard44

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Ive never seen one plumbed straight into manifold vacum, theres always been some kind of a diverter or solenoid. when I rebuilt the rochester on my 1978 blazer it was hooked to timed vacum and if I remember right the emission tag called for 6° advanced, I will take a look tomorrow and double check
 

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Started the truck, I did use a little choke to help it since it’s 35°, pressed throttle once to pull chrome then cranked. Fired right up but running rough and popping from exhaust(vac advance still plugged) also puffed from carb during cranking. I retarded timing a little and it ran worse so I placed it back where it was and connected vac advance to manifold. Runs alright but still popping from exhaust some. Tachometer still isn’t working right.
 

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that sounds good young man whats your timing set at ?
 

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Started the truck, I did use a little choke to help it since it’s 35°, pressed throttle once to pull chrome then cranked. Fired right up but running rough and popping from exhaust(vac advance still plugged) also puffed from carb during cranking. I retarded timing a little and it ran worse so I placed it back where it was and connected vac advance to manifold. Runs alright but still popping from exhaust some. Tachometer still isn’t working right.
it will pop till u get some exh on it sounds good
 

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I’ve been so busy I haven’t had time to set timing I haven’t touched the truck in a few days until last night when I showed my mom it ran again. Since it had been sitting a couple days it didn’t fire right up I did have to give it two pumps and then it fired but one time when I revved it for her it dipped in rpm instead of accelerating. Could that just be because I haven’t tuned in everything yet? Or is it still rich?
 

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thats good only 2 pumps after sitting , the eng was prob still cold is the reason it fell on its face when u gave it the gas good luck
 

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I can’t set the timing tonigjt but I plan on getting both of the trucks finished tomorrow, what do I need to set timing to, final answer only, I’ve heard everything from 8-14° and vac advance ported and manifold. I know it’s more of which does the truck run best at but I need a baseline to go off of. I’m assuming closer to 10° because that’s what it should be around currently. Vac advance is at manifold currently. If it’s running good I might sell it to dad and buy his dads crew cab lol I really want a crew cab :p
 

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Had the teuck running today and drove it around the yard some after throwing a seat in it. Runs decent, has a hellacious exhaust leak. But my problem is the tach works one time then next time you start it the tach doesn’t work right. Could this be a bad connection at the distributor or a faulty tach? It’s not just sitting at 0 it’s showing the absolute wrong rpm and does increase with throttle. But it’s showing like 7k at idle or something else obviously wrong.
 

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Also are spark plug wires directional? I noticed that each end is different one is kind of softer and squishy and one end is more firm but neither end is labeled as plug or distributor.
They are directional in that they wouldnt play nice to put the 90 degree bends on the plug and have it touch exhaust and then have a straight end go on the cap. Unless they are btoh 90 degree, then the one which is more robust is probably for the heat end and the side that is smooth is usually the cap. If its an OE style wire, the cap end has a little hat on the 90 degree bend that a retainer slots on over
 

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Had the teuck running today and drove it around the yard some after throwing a seat in it. Runs decent, has a hellacious exhaust leak. But my problem is the tach works one time then next time you start it the tach doesn’t work right. Could this be a bad connection at the distributor or a faulty tach? It’s not just sitting at 0 it’s showing the absolute wrong rpm and does increase with throttle. But it’s showing like 7k at idle or something else obviously wrong.
Is the wire to the tach a direct connection? Because of how yours is spade connected, as I said before, you should not run that. The signal coming off the HEI cap is more complex than I can describe but square waves and duty cycles or soemthing.

If you want to hook up your tach, you should unplug your lead, splice in properly a wire of some length(enough to reach your cluster so give yourself a few feet) then use a store bought Tach and use it under the hood and see if it works. if it works consistently you have a perfectly fine coil but you need a tach or the wiring is interupted somewhere. if you have the same behavior then you have a coil issue to my understanding. If you really wanted a used OE coil I have some I could send a cap with one on it (no guarantees) but you could also buy a new one if you were ever iffy on it to begin with(have you had that cover off?)
also your tach showing the wrong thing to my understanding if they start to fail sometimes they do that but I would pull the lcuster and check all connections there before I condemn it.

But that isnt important right now as much as your timing, ignition, fuel, spark plugs etc.
 

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I did attempt to start the truck it fired right off but died after a second or two then cranked real slow so I’ve got the battery on the charger. I’m having a problem with my tbi now idling so low it stalls if idling too long
we have been over this on your tbi.. ill check your thread
 

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they have settings on them 4 6 8 cyl on the tach mack sure yours is set on 8 cyl
 

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