Adjusting valves....

[89Suburban]

Great post swims.

 

[nxtlevl]

everybody says with flat tappet cams and no zddp they'll wipe out fast.

You need to pull the intake either way, so what I would do is do that, pull that lifter and check the bottom of it. They are supposed to be slightly dished out or convex, if it's flat no dish out or if it's dished in/convex, the lifter and cam needs replaced.

If the lifter turns out ok on bottom, could just be a bad one, next step i would yan all the other lifters, check them, and if they are all good buy a new set, throw em in and be done.

If you find the cam bad, not a big deal, remove the front accs. like water pump, alt. pulley etc. then you need a puller tool for the balancer, remove it, loosen up the front oil pan bolts, or take them all out, but would require new pan gasket, usually you just take out the first couple and loosen the rest or loosen half, everyone says something different, yank the timing cover, take out the 3 cam gear bolts pull it, and the chain off, then pull the cam after all the lifters are out.

It would also be good to set the motor and tdc before tearing it apart, that way dropping the dist. back in is easier, and should be done with either a cam swap or lifters only change.

Take the no.1 plug out, unplug the coil, have a buddy tap the key while you hold your thumb over the hole, when it blows your thumb off stop, insert a screwdriver or something to make sure the piston is up, if so good, if not try to move the crank pulley/balancer by hand to get it all the way up, you can also check the timing indicator, but there's a chance it could have slipped or something and be off a tad or alot. Then when you go to the drp dist. you can drop it pointing the rotor button at no. 1 cylinder, You can also leave it where it is for a lifter only change, but mark the rotor to dist. and dist. to intake or rotor to intake, and line it back up once you drop it back in. This is by far the hardest part for sure, trying to get it set right, sometimes you have to pull and drop it over and over. You can also reach down with a long flat tip screwdriver or needle nose and turn the il pump shaft to help it line up better and faster.

You're gonna need more then intake gaskets lol, you'll need or want valve cover gaskets, and new lifters, then an intake gasket set. it aint bad though they are cheap and sometimes the valve cover gaskets can be reused, but if you have it apart and buy a kit or something might as well change them.

Nice info....... I'm confident that I could do this, but it would just be the factor of "How long it would take me".....If I still had my work truck, I'd be tearing into the '87 right now, and not looking back.....

 

[Swims350]

your welcome man. That is the thing it does take time. I've done it all in a day, at least getting the the lifters, and had it all back together and running. it was actually a bit more, I tore down the monte carlo, jerked the heads off and put new valve seals in them, then torqued them down and all that, so a cam swap could be done in a day, but at least 2 is what I'd figure for, and if you being new to it and first time you'd want to give yourself or plan for a weeks work, shouldn't take more then a couple days, maybe 3 at best to get it all fine tuned and retorqued, test drove and everything. if you plan for a week of though, not driving it and such you'll give yourself plenty of time. if you have everything there you're set, if you have to order parts you're screwed LOL.

Now for new lifters, soak them in oil overnight or so before putting them in the motor. If you let them sit and stop bubbling in the oil they should be good to go, but I usually just leave em at least 4 hrs. or so. All the companies I've seen and instructions I've had say DO NOT pump them up, meaning you take a push rod and pump them while they are in oil. Once they go back together a non running adjustment will get you close enough to start it up and run it, get your timing dialed in and such, then you can pull the covers and adjust them, clean it all up and put the new gaskets on the valve covers. I know exactly what you mean about being cold. I got no garage to work in, so I aint doing anything lol. Got plenty lined up to do, just no where to do it.

 

[89Suburban]

your welcome man. That is the thing it does take time. I've done it all in a day, at least getting the the lifters, and had it all back together and running. it was actually a bit more, I tore down the monte carlo, jerked the heads off and put new valve seals in them, then torqued them down and all that, so a cam swap could be done in a day, but at least 2 is what I'd figure for, and if you being new to it and first time you'd want to give yourself or plan for a weeks work, shouldn't take more then a couple days, maybe 3 at best to get it all fine tuned and retorqued, test drove and everything. if you plan for a week of though, not driving it and such you'll give yourself plenty of time. if you have everything there you're set, if you have to order parts you're screwed LOL.

Now for new lifters, soak them in oil overnight or so before putting them in the motor. If you let them sit and stop bubbling in the oil they should be good to go, but I usually just leave em at least 4 hrs. or so. All the companies I've seen and instructions I've had say DO NOT pump them up, meaning you take a push rod and pump them while they are in oil. Once they go back together a non running adjustment will get you close enough to start it up and run it, get your timing dialed in and such, then you can pull the covers and adjust them, clean it all up and put the new gaskets on the valve covers. I know exactly what you mean about being cold. I got no garage to work in, so I aint doing anything lol. Got plenty lined up to do, just no where to do it.

Should the lifters be placed standing up in the oil or just lay them down and that's ok?

 

[Old77]

Great info coming from this thread

 

[crazy4offroad]

Should the lifters be placed standing up in the oil or just lay them down and that's ok?

Standing up is the way I've done it.

 

[Swims350]

either is fine, I've laid mine down before, mostly because they were in a coffee can and not enough room to stand them up, but if you can stand em up, that's how they sit in the truck.

Also old trick my old man always does is when he removes the timing cover with the oil pan on, if it has not been done already he snips the ears off the top where the end of the seal go on the bottom of the timing cover, makes putting it back on the block and taking it off ever again that way alot easier. Only on the inside though, not the outside. it's hard to explain but if I had pics I'd show ya. he done that on the 350 in his 84 now and when I done a cam swap in truck I just took the front 2 bolts off the pan, and loosened up a couple on each side, it slide off and right back on very easy. His 86 was the same way but it was a 4x4 and you could drop the pan easily with the motor in the truck.

 

[89Suburban]

either is fine, I've laid mine down before, mostly because they were in a coffee can and not enough room to stand them up, but if you can stand em up, that's how they sit in the truck.

Also old trick my old man always does is when he removes the timing cover with the oil pan on, if it has not been done already he snips the ears off the top where the end of the seal go on the bottom of the timing cover, makes putting it back on the block and taking it off ever again that way alot easier. Only on the inside though, not the outside. it's hard to explain but if I had pics I'd show ya. he done that on the 350 in his 84 now and when I done a cam swap in truck I just took the front 2 bolts off the pan, and loosened up a couple on each side, it slide off and right back on very easy. His 86 was the same way but it was a 4x4 and you could drop the pan easily with the motor in the truck.

Another great detailed post, thanks man. Does anybody agree with me that the oil pan and timing cover sealing area and gaskets should be two totally separate entities? I hate 4 piece oil pan gasket seals, they suck ass.

 

[89Suburban]

Standing up is the way I've done it.

Yes, and I also hear that if you lay them on the sides, make sure the hole in the oil feed groove is facing in an up position so all the air bubbles get out.

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[89Suburban]

Great info coming from this thread

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[89Suburban]

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[Irishman999]

Another great detailed post, thanks man. Does anybody agree with me that the oil pan and timing cover sealing area and gaskets should be two totally separate entities? I hate 4 piece oil pan gasket seals, they suck ass.

The new **** is silicone oil pan gaskets. We just put one on the C65 dump truck, it was about 50 bucks but is reusable and came with these plastic studs that screw into the oil pan bolt holes and holds the gasket up to the block so all you have to do is push the gasket onto the studs and then push the oil pan on, 100 times better than that traditional ******** with cork gaskets on the sides and the rubber pieces front and back.

 

[HotRodPC]

Good idea to consider a flat cam lobe too, but I really think that's out at this point. I only say that cuz he said the valve did adjust, then if a lobe goes flat, it goes pretty flat and has very little to no lift compared to the other valves and I think he'd have noticed that while adjusting valves. Again, you can always bump the motor around with the key, and get the valve open and measure how far the rocker arm dips in comparison to a few other rockers on the same bank.

 

[crazy4offroad]

Set up a dial indicator on your valves and turn the motor over by hand and find out which one(s) arent lifting as much as the others. That helps you know exactly where to look when you tear into it. But truthfully if you're going that far and you're not sure of the mileage of the truck it would be totally worth it to just change the whole cam+lifters.

I took an old cam gear and cut the teeth and outer circumfrence of the gear off and welded a piece of re-bar to it about a foot long to make a cam R&R tool. Bolt it to the cam and it makes changing one much easier. Banging the cam around on the cam bearings putting one in is a big no-no. Without one you just about need to leave the cam gear on to have something to hold on to taking one out/putting one in.

Mr. Gasket has a nice 2-piece timing chain cover I'm lusting after. It would make indexing the cam on race day much easier, but it would be unnecessary for the average truck.

Also when you prime your lifters letting them soak in oil overnight, the next day take a pushrod and while they're still in the oil press the pushrod in the top of the lifter a little and try to "pump" them a little. It will help push out any air that might still be in there and it will suck oil back in.

 

[Swims350]

yea but like I said most lfiters manufactors say do not pump them up any. Just soak in oil. You can do whatever, I've done both lol.

As for 2 piece timing covers, yes, yes, and YES!!!! cam swaps made tons easier.

As for being seperate gaskets yes they should, having to fight with them sucks. I think the timing cover should seal by itself to the block and the oil pan to the block in it's own spot, not sharing gaskets.

As for the one piece gasket deals, pretty cool IMO, got one on my 88. They aint cheap, but then again i bought my whole gasket set for the 88 from northern auto for like $42 shipping. I was extrememly happy with that price, everywhere else was $80 for a set and it was not fel-pro. Mines not either but it works, so far I have zero leaks on anything, and it's been over a year now.