4L65E Mega Monster Transmission - Destruction and Shift Kit check balls

[SquareRoot]

Hey, just 1 more post. Thanks so much for posting these pics. Sorry it had to happen to you, but I just love love love carnage pics. They tend to make my sticker peck out. Makes me wanna go wreck ole' girls uterus and cause some more carnage. Know whutta mean Dawg?!?!?

Lol, I'm picking up what you're throwing down.

 

[NickTransmissions]

See, this is the part where I don't consider myself a trans guy. I'm sure I've always played with the rear end play on 700r4's also. If it was like a Th350, then I was happy with it. But yeah I get what you're saying. There's no selective thrust washer in the back that I recall. But you explained the thrust well and yep, that's what I'm getting at. You see the impression of the planet pinion spindles impressioned on the center support innner race. That in itself tells me there was a major thrust or end play issue. Not sure what chain of events happened first but that part is obvious that it did happen. And that is NO Smart Shell at all, even though it doesn't look like it failed. Even the teeth look good. Is it not true, the Smart Shell spreads or redirects the thrust to prevent such type damage??? The last 700r4's I did, I just included the smart shell. I got sick of seeing all these hardened shells on ebay and other places and figured they're from China so to be sure I knew I'm getting 100% quality sunshell, I just got the Smart Shell from Sonnax and knew I had a good one without worry or wondering.

Anytime there is failure in the gear train, thurst-driven destruction is almost guaranteed as once individual components start breaking up, teeth start stripping, you being to have significant, uncontrolled (and violent) longitudinal travel of the rotating assembly, either in part or as a whole. The only question is the genesis of the failure - was it bad planets that decided to let go or was there a restriction or perhaps something else...

Thinking about it a bit more, I'm guessing now that Monster used aftermarket 5-pinion planetary carriers and they are notorious for failing prematurely. I always used GM OEM good used or reconditioned assemblies whenever I convert a 4L60E to a 4L6E/70E or beyond.

Awesome information and great feedback everyone - thank you very much!

Any thoughts on the check ball configuration? Should I use the larger check balls along with the configuration I found them from the "supposed" shift kit? Or should I be ok with the stock configuration I put them back as?

Again - thanks in advance for any additional advice!

Did you have any plate wear at the check ball locations? Did you install all 7 check balls back onto the valve body, as well as the 4th accumulator check ball, before reinstalling it onto the case? Did you put a quart or so of trans fluid in the converter before you stabbed it?

I am wondering why you rebuilt and reinstalled the transmission prior to asking these questions...

 

[SquareRoot]

I am wondering why you rebuilt and reinstalled the transmission prior to asking these questions...

^^^^. Ya, spit it! Sounds like someone "Screwed the pooch"?

 

[nbkk43f]

Anytime there is failure in the gear train, thurst-driven destruction is almost guaranteed as once individual components start breaking up, teeth start stripping, you being to have significant, uncontrolled (and violent) longitudinal travel of the rotating assembly, either in part or as a whole. The only question is the genesis of the failure - was it bad planets that decided to let go or was there a restriction or perhaps something else...

Thinking about it a bit more, I'm guessing now that Monster used aftermarket 5-pinion planetary carriers and they are notorious for failing prematurely. I always used GM OEM good used or reconditioned assemblies whenever I convert a 4L60E to a 4L6E/70E or beyond.

Did you have any plate wear at the check ball locations? Did you install all 7 check balls back onto the valve body, as well as the 4th accumulator check ball, before reinstalling it onto the case? Did you put a quart or so of trans fluid in the converter before you stabbed it?

I am wondering why you rebuilt and reinstalled the transmission prior to asking these questions...

Thanks @NickTransmissions - subscriber of your channel and have watched several of your videos, love the content!

Yep, all eight check balls accounted for and installed in the stock locations. Yes, I always prefill new torque converters. As for the one in this particular transmission, I drained it the best I could (upside down in a pan for a few days) to potentially get any trash out of it and prefilled it prior to reinstalling it. Is it spotless and trash free at this point, highly doubtful to be honest. Cooler lines flushed as well.

Regarding the check balls, my primary question, I believe overthinking them got the best of me, which led me to seek other opinions - also, it's something that I can easily get to and change up, if you guys think I should, while in the vehicle.

Thanks again!

 

[NickTransmissions]

Thanks @NickTransmissions - subscriber of your channel and have watched several of your videos, love the content!

Yep, all eight check balls accounted for and installed in the stock locations. Yes, I always prefill new torque converters. As for the one in this particular transmission, I drained it the best I could (upside down in a pan for a few days) to potentially get any trash out of it and prefilled it prior to reinstalling it. Is it spotless and trash free at this point, highly doubtful to be honest. Cooler lines flushed as well.

Regarding the check balls, my primary question, I believe overthinking them got the best of me, which led me to seek other opinions - also, it's something that I can easily get to and change up, if you guys think I should, while in the vehicle.

Thanks again!

You're welcome, man and appreciate the views and sub!

Gotcha, yea for now, keep the 7 check balls...One question - do you have a picture of the spacer plate all cleaned off? I'm curious to see what, if any, mods they did to it...From what I recall from the last one I did, they drill the plate out the standard sizes per the shift kit instructions they ran but may or may not have adjusted for likely converter stall differences (they are a one-size-fits-all type operation for each of the transmission options they sell).

 

[nbkk43f]

You're welcome, man and appreciate the views and sub!

Gotcha, yea for now, keep the 7 check balls...One question - do you have a picture of the spacer plate all cleaned off? I'm curious to see what, if any, mods they did to it...From what I recall from the last one I did, they drill the plate out the standard sizes per the shift kit instructions they ran but may or may not have adjusted for likely converter stall differences (they are a one-size-fits-all type operation for each of the transmission options they sell).

Sounds good - thank you! Had to look back through my pics, I'm usually pretty good about documenting. Unfortunately I didn't take a pic of the separator plate without the old gaskets on it, nor did I after cleaning it all up and reinstalling it with the new gaskets. I did some research regarding check ball wear on the separator plate beforehand and had a "decent" idea of what to look for - didn't see any noticeable wear, from my untrained eye.

 

[NickTransmissions]

Sounds good - thank you! Had to look back through my pics, I'm usually pretty good about documenting. Unfortunately I didn't take a pic of the separator plate without the old gaskets on it, nor did I after cleaning it all up and reinstalling it with the new gaskets. I did some research regarding check ball wear on the separator plate beforehand and had a "decent" idea of what to look for - didn't see any noticeable wear, from my untrained eye.

The trouble spot is the 1-2 check ball location...much more so than the others however if Torlon check balls were used, it's not likely to be worn as if steel 1/4" balls have been installed. If you have to drop the valve body and plate again for any reason, please post a picture of it cleaned off...

 

[nbkk43f]

The trouble spot is the 1-2 check ball location...much more so than the others however if Torlon check balls were used, it's not likely to be worn as if steel 1/4" balls have been installed. If you have to drop the valve body and plate again for any reason, please post a picture of it cleaned off...

Will do, thank you!

 

[Craig Nedrow]

If you have a trans cooler, I hope you flushed the lines and cooler, as there will be significant filings, What carnage, better by far then the 350 I broke!

 

[Bextreme04]

Thanks @NickTransmissions - subscriber of your channel and have watched several of your videos, love the content!

Yep, all eight check balls accounted for and installed in the stock locations. Yes, I always prefill new torque converters. As for the one in this particular transmission, I drained it the best I could (upside down in a pan for a few days) to potentially get any trash out of it and prefilled it prior to reinstalling it. Is it spotless and trash free at this point, highly doubtful to be honest. Cooler lines flushed as well.

Regarding the check balls, my primary question, I believe overthinking them got the best of me, which led me to seek other opinions - also, it's something that I can easily get to and change up, if you guys think I should, while in the vehicle.

Thanks again!

Man... the amount of trash and junk you had in the bottom of that pan tells me you really should have flushed the heck out of any cooler lines and you REALLY should have sent the converter out for a cut and clean. You are never going to get even a small percentage of the trash out of all the nooks and crannies in that converter without getting it blown apart and cleaned thoroughly.

 

[nbkk43f]

Man... the amount of trash and junk you had in the bottom of that pan tells me you really should have flushed the heck out of any cooler lines and you REALLY should have sent the converter out for a cut and clean. You are never going to get even a small percentage of the trash out of all the nooks and crannies in that converter without getting it blown apart and cleaned thoroughly.

Excellent point! Out of curiosity, what would it cost have a $250 stock stall converter sent out for a cut and clean?

 

[nbkk43f]

If you have a trans cooler, I hope you flushed the lines and cooler, as there will be significant filings, What carnage, better by far then the 350 I broke!

Yes, as mentioned above, I flushed those guys out. Guidance much appreciated!

 

[NickTransmissions]

Excellent point! Out of curiosity, what would it cost have a $250 stock stall converter sent out for a cut and clean?

No one does a cut and clean, if its going to a converter builder, it will be completely rebuilt, which is exactly what you should do.

Never reuse old converters with a rebuilt transmission. I always provide a new one with my rebuilds...

 

[HotRodPC]

No one does a cut and clean, if its going to a converter builder, it will be completely rebuilt, which is exactly what you should do.

Never reuse old converters with a rebuilt transmission. I always provide a new one with my rebuilds...

Yep, What he said !!! New or Reman. Nothing else. I don't even think you can find a guy that does flushing anymore. Just like a greasy fart... I'd never trust that either.

 

[Bextreme04]

Yep, What he said !!! New or Reman. Nothing else. I don't even think you can find a guy that does flushing anymore. Just like a greasy fart... I'd never trust that either.

Yeah, sorry... terminology always comes back to bite me. For a stock converter it is just a reman.

You get cut and clean on aftermarket high performance converters. Most places absolutely still do this... because the expensive parts like a billet front cover are completely untouched in a rebuild. They cut them apart, clean the heck out of everything and inspect the parts. Replace anything that is damaged, then weld it back together and send it back to you. Generally called a "cut and clean", but really its a remanufacture using your old expensive billet or high performance parts. It costs about the same as buying a stock reman converter instead of $1000. In my area a stock reman 6L80 converter was about $140 and a stock reman 4l80 converter for a 454 was about $160 a few years ago. Today I would expect to pay between $200-500 for a stock to mildly upgraded converter. They will take your old one as a core. I don't know if the 4l60 converters have the same issue with ballooning under heavy load that the 6l80 does, that's the main reason for a billet front cover on the 6l80 and that's what gets expensive.