454 upgrade

[shiftpro]

Careful if you stick with the stock stroke that stock crank is only good up to 600, other than that I'm building a 2 bolt with a voodoo and I'm gonna have a mid range 11:1 or higher I'm gonna have a methanol injection system so I can stick to pump fuel and daily it I've ported the stock heads a healthy amount soon it will go in and I'll hit the dyno I'm gonna have 2200 stall converter along with a turbo 400 and a 205 trans case in a short box with 3:73 gears soon enough 4:10 but that's just what it is right now anyway I'm hoping for a mid 400 to the ground with 33" tires I think if anything my 650 demon or the 3 speed is gonna kill me I still have high hopes for that mid 400 though

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It seems like you have good comments but please, it's really difficult to read something with no punctuation.
If you had nothing good to say I wouldn't mind so much.

 

[shiftpro]

I certainly don't want to be the grammar cop bitch, and I realize that writing with poor or no grammar is somehow cool these days.
Talking **** is one thing but here I think we are trying to exchange ideas and learn something... hell anything.

 

[AzGeo]

I'm trying to understand some of the components and specs being given on this build . 11.0 to 1 is high enough to require "special fuel", but not as high as that same fuel will accommodate (12.5 + to 1) .

I would think that building a "street driven hot rod", you would either go "pump gas" or "dialed on kill", not something in between .

IMO, a Thumper cam is offered for "sound effects over top performance", just look at the 'specs' .

I would also like to ask; "at what RPM level will this have 600 HP, and at what RPM will the real torque start" ?

In other words, will this motor make usable power where you need it ?

 

[AzGeo]

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You're not really going to run that big stinker on a 2 bolt block? You will exceed 600hp easy with that setup.

I've run a "two bolt motor" with 5 to 8 lbs thru a little Rajay for 500,000 miles, with no failures .

I'm now going to "let it eat", with a GM EFI, intercooler, and this T-6 Garrett .

I'm going to limit it to 5800 and 10 lbs, once the tune up is close there should be no problems .

This blower has an air flow number of 620 HP @ 10 lbs, on 460 cubic inches . This should finally get the exhaust back pressures down .

 

[shiftpro]

You must be registered for see images attach

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I've run a "two bolt motor" with 5 to 8 lbs thru a little Rajay for 500,000 miles, with no failures .

I'm now going to "let it eat", with a GM EFI, intercooler, and this T-6 Garrett .

I'm going to limit it to 5800 and 10 lbs, once the tune up is close there should be no problems .

This blower has an air flow number of 620 HP @ 10 lbs, on 460 cubic inches . This should finally get the exhaust back pressures down .

Very interesting, thanks for the comments.

 

[74 Shortbed]

Two bolts are not as weak as one would think..

 

[OkieFishMan]

I've seen BBC 2 bolt mains take 700hp for multiple seasons in a chevelle that was bracket raced. They are tougher than one might think, although I think 700 has got to be close to the limit.

 

[1973c10]

Use studs if you are worried , balance your rotating assembly and have fun

 

[74 Shortbed]

I use ARP studs in my 468 and turn 7400 no problems, naturally aspirated of course..

 

[TheSquareGuy]

I'm trying to understand some of the components and specs being given on this build . 11.0 to 1 is high enough to require "special fuel", but not as high as that same fuel will accommodate (12.5 + to 1) .

I would think that building a "street driven hot rod", you would either go "pump gas" or "dialed on kill", not something in between .

IMO, a Thumper cam is offered for "sound effects over top performance", just look at the 'specs' .

I would also like to ask; "at what RPM level will this have 600 HP, and at what RPM will the real torque start" ?

In other words, will this motor make usable power where you need it ?

I'm not sure if this comment was directed at me, but if so yes it needs fuel treatment and I went with a methanol injection system. Other than that I can turn my timing back about 28 degrees and run premium. I ran it on the stand obviously it has no load on a stand but it was on 91 and there was no detonation so I should be fairly safe

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[AzGeo]

IMO, it's how and where you make your peak power . Back when I was in the boat business, I worked long and hard to bring "large oval port, cast crank, 3/8" rod 454 motors" up to a "usable power level", and have them live .

NONE of them had 11.0 to 1 compression, that's not pump gas friendly .

I don't think that today's "roller cams" will make much difference on a motor like the ones I built years ago . Those Thumper cams ain't going to do any better, either .

I had an affordable motor combo based on those small port (not peanut port) cast crank motors, that made an honest 510-525 HP @ 6200 RPMs, depending on the external parts used .

Unless you rev up this motor way above the mid 6000's, or run some kind of blower/turbo, it ain't making no 600 HP .

Cylinder pressure makes torque, torque moves the load, use a power adder, and do the job you want to do .

 

[AzGeo]

I'm not sure if this comment was directed at me, but if so yes it needs fuel treatment and I went with a methanol injection system. Other than that I can turn my timing back about 28 degrees and run premium. I ran it on the stand obviously it has no load on a stand but it was on 91 and there was no detonation so I should be fairly safe

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Do you know what happens when an open chamber BB runs with LATE SPARK TIMING ?

Sure, you could run it lazy pig rich, but why ?

That kind of late timing will burn the exhaust valves out of that normally aspirated motor quicker than you can shut it off .

With all due respect , I don't know who's pissing in your ear, while taking your money, but that "injection system" will not fix your major problem here .

First of all the "Thumper cam" will not breath anywhere near 600HP (without a 10-71). Second, picture yourself driving "steady state" like 20% throttle opening, the motor will see HIGH VACUUM as you cruise down the road .

High vacuum will tell the "injection system" that the motor is not under LOAD, and to not operate .

Meanwhile, you are driving down a flat road at 2500 RPMs with only 28 degrees of spark advance .

HALF of your flame travel is going out the exhaust valve ! This heats up the valves and "tulips" them into their graves .

Then add that to the fact that the A/F is actually PINGING/DIESELING even under a light load, because it is less OCTANE than the heat and cylinder pressures required at that time .

While the valves are being killed, you could also be melting the pistons down and sticking the ring lands .

For a street driven vehicle, you need to have a viable normally driven motor, and then you need to adjust your tune up to that same motor under loads .



With the variables in today's "fuel at the pump", I'm building motors and combinations that deal with all those variables .

I suggest that you do too .

 

[TheSquareGuy]

Do you know what happens when an open chamber BB runs with LATE SPARK TIMING ?

Sure, you could run it lazy pig rich, but why ?

That kind of late timing will burn the exhaust valves out of that normally aspirated motor quicker than you can shut it off .

With all due respect , I don't know who's pissing in your ear, while taking your money, but that "injection system" will not fix your major problem here .

First of all the "Thumper cam" will not breath anywhere near 600HP (without a 10-71). Second, picture yourself driving "steady state" like 20% throttle opening, the motor will see HIGH VACUUM as you cruise down the road .

High vacuum will tell the "injection system" that the motor is not under LOAD, and to not operate .

Meanwhile, you are driving down a flat road at 2500 RPMs with only 28 degrees of spark advance .

HALF of your flame travel is going out the exhaust valve ! This heats up the valves and "tulips" them into their graves .

Then add that to the fact that the A/F is actually PINGING/DIESELING even under a light load, because it is less OCTANE than the heat and cylinder pressures required at that time .

While the valves are being killed, you could also be melting the pistons down and sticking the ring lands .

For a street driven vehicle, you need to have a viable normally driven motor, and then you need to adjust your tune up to that same motor under loads .



With the variables in today's "fuel at the pump", I'm building motors and combinations that deal with all those variables .

I suggest that you do too .

I meant 15 degrees yet still having down sides obviously, its not the optimal way to run the motor yet it'll work in a situation in which the injection system cannot be used, the injection system will not be ran off of vacuum rather a tps so its going off of throttle position. And I'm not gonna be getting 600 HP I know that I think that might have been someone else's post. I'd be getting mid 500s and I have a lunati voodoo not some thumpr pos.

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[HotRodPC]

Turbos are where it's at these days. Or even a Procharger. Blowers are old school these days.

 

[87scotty]

You're not really going to run that big stinker on a 2 bolt block? You will exceed 600hp easy with that setup.

A lot of reading out there says 2 bolt blocks better if you spade em