3 on the tree

[DoubleDingo]

In theory, can't I engage the overdrive in any gear? I know that is how it works with a Gear Vendors.

It doesn't really matter though, since if I engaged it in 2nd, it would still be 1.05 to 1, not an overdrive.

Depending on how you set it up, you can run it in OD in any gear except reverse. It's a pain to shift it like that as it requires a lot of switching on and off of the solenoid. I will shift into 2nd, and then depending on the traffic, either switch on the solenoid for 2ndOD, or just go into 3rd and wait until highway speeds are achieved and then switch on the solenoid, let off the gas for it to engage, then hit the gas and cruise with lower rpms.

A Ranger OD in reverse would depend completely on your reverse gear. I doubt you could go highway speeds in reverse without over-revving the engine.

 

[mcarlo86]

I was reading @DoubleDingo 's thread on Crusty Biscuit and it made me think about this topic. My dad acquired this 3 speed OD transmission a few years ago. I believe it is out of a '67 C10. I have no idea if it was a 6 cylinder or V8 pickup. He wanted me to put this in my '68 C10 in place of the SM465 four speed. Seemed like a good idea, until we couldn't find a floor shifter for it that would work. Evidently Hurst made a pickup floor shifter for these back in the day but discontinued them long ago. I'm unsure if I want to put a 3 speed column in my pickup. What I really would like to find someday is a NP833/440, but they are hard to find. Anyways, here are some pictures of the transmission. Any idea how I would find out what gears it has in it? My '68 has a 327 and 3.73's with 235 75 15 tires. I'm also curious if anyone has seen a floor shifter for one of these or if a regular pickup 3 speed floor shifter could be made to work with it?

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[mcarlo86]

I was reading @DoubleDingo 's thread on Crusty Biscuit and it made me think about this topic. My dad acquired this 3 speed OD transmission a few years ago. I believe it is out of a '67 C10. I have no idea if it was a 6 cylinder or V8 pickup. He wanted me to put this in my '68 C10 in place of the SM465 four speed. Seemed like a good idea, until we couldn't find a floor shifter for it that would work. Evidently Hurst made a pickup floor shifter for these back in the day but discontinued them long ago. I'm unsure if I want to put a 3 speed column in my pickup. What I really would like to find someday is a NP833/440, but they are hard to find. Anyways, here are some pictures of the transmission. Any idea how I would find out what gears it has in it? My '68 has a 327 and 3.73's with 235 75 15 tires. I'm also curious if anyone has seen a floor shifter for one of these or if a regular pickup 3 speed floor shifter could be made to work with it?

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After doing some research, this might be a Muncie and not a Saginaw because it is a 4 bolt side cover instead of a 7 bolt side cover. @DoubleDingo which transmission is in Crusty Biscuit?

 

[idahovette]

You should be able to use almost any 3 spd shifter on that transmission. Most have a bracket that bolts to the tailshaft/od adapter bolts and should be fairly far forward on the hump inside. That transmission looks almost identical to the one I had in my first 56 Chev 210 4 door hardtop, way back when.......

 

[DoubleDingo]

@mcarlo86 You may have a Borg Warner transmission. You definitely have all the goodies to make it a fully functioning overdrive transmission with kickdown switch, etc.

If I'm not mistaken, the Muncie had the same side cover as the Saginaw. Mine is a Saginaw 3 speed and I have 4.57 rear gears.

Those BW overdrive units are a steep 30% reduction, so your 3.73s would be 2.61. I'm talking about the tailshaft housing, not the transmission itself. They used different transmissions with those overdrive tailshaft housings. They're basically a regular transmission with a couple modifications to make the overdrive system work.

Crusty's 4.57s become 3.19 final drive in OD. You'll need good torque at the rpm for highway cruising, but you'll be able to squeeze 14 mpg easily with that setup, especially with the right tire diameter. Your 235/75r15 may be too tall. You can always swap it in, see how it runs, then decide on tire size. I had already bought the tires and wheels before I got Crusty Biscuit, so I am stuck with them for a couple more years. I'll probably be going to a tad smaller diameter tire when I replace them, but I'm also going to a 292 with some head work done to it make breathe way better. Once I get all the swaps done I'll either have a final drive gear in OD of 3.33 or 2.58. 3.33 will be if I keep the 4.57 HO52 in it, or I go with the 1968 3.54 Dana 60.

Eventually the Saginaw 3 speed is coming out of Crusty, and an SM420 with a Ranger Gear Splitter is going in. I like the stock column shift, but I've wanted twin sticks coming through a high hump since I got this truck, and I have everything to make it happen, just need to stop enjoying the truck so much in its current state...lol...

 

[DoubleDingo]

Looking closer you don't seem to have the kick down switch, but I've never had it on mine and only use overdrive on the open road, not for every day driving like the fully functioning setup allows.

 

[mcarlo86]

@mcarlo86 You may have a Borg Warner transmission. You definitely have all the goodies to make it a fully functioning overdrive transmission with kickdown switch, etc.

If I'm not mistaken, the Muncie had the same side cover as the Saginaw. Mine is a Saginaw 3 speed and I have 4.57 rear gears.

Those BW overdrive units are a steep 30% reduction, so your 3.73s would be 2.61. I'm talking about the tailshaft housing, not the transmission itself. They used different transmissions with those overdrive tailshaft housings. They're basically a regular transmission with a couple modifications to make the overdrive system work.

Crusty's 4.57s become 3.19 final drive in OD. You'll need good torque at the rpm for highway cruising, but you'll be able to squeeze 14 mpg easily with that setup, especially with the right tire diameter. Your 235/75r15 may be too tall. You can always swap it in, see how it runs, then decide on tire size. I had already bought the tires and wheels before I got Crusty Biscuit, so I am stuck with them for a couple more years. I'll probably be going to a tad smaller diameter tire when I replace them, but I'm also going to a 292 with some head work done to it make breathe way better. Once I get all the swaps done I'll either have a final drive gear in OD of 3.33 or 2.58. 3.33 will be if I keep the 4.57 HO52 in it, or I go with the 1968 3.54 Dana 60.

Eventually the Saginaw 3 speed is coming out of Crusty, and an SM420 with a Ranger Gear Splitter is going in. I like the stock column shift, but I've wanted twin sticks coming through a high hump since I got this truck, and I have everything to make it happen, just need to stop enjoying the truck so much in its current state...lol...

Yes it is a Borg Warner overdrive unit. I'm certain it is a Muncie 3 speed now. The Saginaw 3 speeds had 7 bolt side covers evidently and the light duty Muncie 3 speeds had 4 bolt side covers. I found this website that had some good info on it that helped me ID it. https://www.drivetrain.com/parts-ca...entify-chevrolet-gmc-manual-transmissions-v24

Evidently the Muncie's didn't have a synchronized 1st gear and the Saginaws did.

 

[idahovette]

Yes it is a Borg Warner overdrive unit. I'm certain it is a Muncie 3 speed now. The Saginaw 3 speeds had 7 bolt side covers evidently and the light duty Muncie 3 speeds had 4 bolt side covers. I found this website that had some good info on it that helped me ID it. https://www.drivetrain.com/parts-ca...entify-chevrolet-gmc-manual-transmissions-v24

Evidently the Muncie's didn't have a synchronized 1st gear and the Saginaws did.

@mcarlo86 you are exactly right, the saginaws were synchronized in first. We looked all over for saginaw 3 speeds in our younger day to switch them in our tri-fives....could NOT afford a 4 spd!!!!!

 

[mcarlo86]

@mcarlo86 you are exactly right, the saginaws were synchronized in first. We looked all over for saginaw 3 speeds in our younger day to switch them in our tri-fives....could NOT afford a 4 spd!!!!!

My dad is from your generation and he had a '62 Impala with a 235, and a Muncie 3 speed on the column back in the late 60's - early 70's. He borrowed the car to a friend who blew up the 235, so he overhauled a 283 and put a floor shifter in. Said the same thing, couldn't afford a 4 speed swap!

 

[idahovette]

OH JEEZ, Brian, you got me thinkin again! My brother had a 62 Impala SS, 300HP 327 4Spd. He was gone to basic at Lackland in Texas and I knew where the keys were. Took it out and had 4 of my "best" friends with me and managed to blow the transmission. Pushed it home and parked it, didn't say boo to nobody, he got home fired it up and the stuff hit the fan. Bout killed me!! He took the trans out bought 2nd gear put it in and backed the car out of the garage, put it in 1st and no go. Locked up, he missed with the reverse fork and it pushed it into reverse, but wouldn't pull it out(have had that trouble myself)!! Anyway out again and in and 2nd time the rear end was crunching, did a number on the spiders, apart again. Needless to say I was #1 on the list for a LONG time, and it cost me some bucks. too!!!! This is on the old "x frame" that the 58-64 Chevys had, not easy to get the trans out to start with. Thanks for the reminder, hadn't thought about that in a few years!!!!! Tell your Dad "HI"

 

[mcarlo86]

Perry, that's a great story! I have tried to get my dad on this forum, but he just isn't very comfortable with computers. He sold that old Impala when my brother and I were little kids in the early 80's. He pulled the 283 first and put it his '69 C10 pickup that he had at the time. He did end up restoring a different '62 SS a few years back and he has a '77 short box C10 too. Someday I will get around to posting some pics of his vehicles.

 

[DoubleDingo]

Yes it is a Borg Warner overdrive unit. I'm certain it is a Muncie 3 speed now. The Saginaw 3 speeds had 7 bolt side covers evidently and the light duty Muncie 3 speeds had 4 bolt side covers. I found this website that had some good info on it that helped me ID it. https://www.drivetrain.com/parts-ca...entify-chevrolet-gmc-manual-transmissions-v24

Evidently the Muncie's didn't have a synchronized 1st gear and the Saginaws did.

I looked it up, the BW trans had 9 bolt covers, I knew they were different. Non-synchro muncie wouldn't be bad because you don't shift into first gear while moving.

Driving with the BW OD is a learning experience, but you get used to it. You learn to make sure the od is disengaged before trying to shift into reverse. If you can shift into reverse with od engaged, something is not right. The freewheeling feature is cool, allows you to shift through the gears without the clutch. 2nd od is a nice gear, just a tad higher than 3rd.

 

[DoubleDingo]

I mention the od being engaged and shifting into reverse, because somehow the PO of Crusty Biscuit had it to where you could shift into reverse but it would freewheel. I had never experienced a freewheeling manual transmission before, so driving it home I nearly rearended a few cars. Scared the crap out of me, not literally, but I'd just bought it, so the last thing I wanted to do was wreck it. That first weekend I did a crash course in BW OD driving. It's mainly just in 3 speed mode now, but sometimes I'll engage the od for the freewheeling feature.

 

[HotRodPC]

Nothing wrong with those fully synchronized Saginaw 3 speeds. They hold up and do tolerate some abuse. Now the shift linkage doesn't like to be beat on. Don't be speed shifting on the tree or it'll be a 3 on the floor in no time.

 

[DoubleDingo]

Nothing wrong with those fully synchronized Saginaw 3 speeds. They hold up and do tolerate some abuse. Now the shift linkage doesn't like to be beat on. Don't be speed shifting on the tree or it'll be a 3 on the floor in no time.

I also have a regular three speed. Have had to run it while overdrive transmission was being rebuilt, it shifted nice, but after having the overdrive I missed it. Was glad when the od trans was ready to go back in.