1987 Chevrolet 350 tbi high idle

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gmbellew

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I'm not an expert on this, but doesn't the radiator cap need to be on so the system maintains pressure to prevent boiling and to ensure proper coolant flow?

also, the temp sensor by the thermostat goes to the computer. the temp gauge gets its reading from another sensor on the block i believe.

that could explain why the temp gauge got so high before the thermostat opened?
 

iamtherealJayy

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That sounds like a possibility, I’ve always just heard to first time adding coolant or after a flush to leave cap off and add coolant as the radiator drinks it down until the thermostat opens, also having heat on so heater core hoses are full too. Might be wrong but someone did mention the heating up was air in the system so my idea was fill it up so no air in system. I did not get around to taking the iac out today and clean it. Since everything was covered in coolant I didn’t want to take anything apart yet and get anything wet. I figure carb cleaner is what I’m supposed to use and I got a cam while I got the thermostat. So, if the gauge is reading from somewhere else is it getting up to between the “3/4” mark and the red zone before dropping back down fine? It’s a 195° thermostat I just put in it. I went to the 160 due to it getting closer to red zone before dropping and I constantly watched my temp gauge until it drove me crazy and I had to swap it for ease of mind.
 

gmbellew

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my 195 degree thermostat opens about 1/3 of the way to 210 from the halfway mark between 100 and 210. the ECM is seeing a temp of about 195 a little lower than that on the gauge after it settles.
 

iamtherealJayy

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So do you think I should be concerned on how high my gauge is reading before the thermostat opens? My gauge was around the line between 210 and 260, I let it open and close three times and it averaged getting too around that line a little past it everytime before dropping to the 210 point. If that’s normal I won’t stress about it too hard but that shows in my opinion it’s getting closer to 240 before it drops to only 210. I do have to say the heat blowing out was pretty nice. Although not worth it if thr trucks going to run hot
 

gmbellew

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I'd try again with the cap on and see what happens. the gauges aren't super accurate if you think about the scale. but mine definitely doesn't hit 210 on the guage before the 195deg tstat opens.
 

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So do you think I should be concerned on how high my gauge is reading before the thermostat opens? My gauge was around the line between 210 and 260, I let it open and close three times and it averaged getting too around that line a little past it everytime before dropping to the 210 point. If that’s normal I won’t stress about it too hard but that shows in my opinion it’s getting closer to 240 before it drops to only 210. I do have to say the heat blowing out was pretty nice. Although not worth it if thr trucks going to run hot
I would double check your gauge sensor because you said its new and they changed a lot and no idea if that includes the 87 tbi or not for specialty. plus the replacement could be an oopsie replacement. Your numbers of course on the gauge wouldnt know if the Ohm scale its built on is shifted different than the factory sensor.

Also, your ECM has a separate sensor, have we confirmed that THIS sensor is reading the temperature accurate to the one seen on the gauge, you need an ALDL reading software or scanner($$$$$) that was referenced at the beginning by @Vbb199 about his phone app and a plug in part I think it was bluetooth too. ALDL live data is slow and minimal but its critical we are understanding things as the way your computer understands them. IF you have a variance from factory spec, then you will never get it where it should because its not working on the same assumptions and thus can vary dramatically.

There is also a way to check the pins with your voltmeter but you need to find what voltage it is cold, hot, and what it would realistically scale to. I dont know if the 1987 model year has a dual range sensor or not, but GM used dual range sensors at least in 1990 which had a shift in what the sensor would report in different temp ranges but using the same sensor, because -40 to something above 230 isnt reasonably doable or accurate for a thermistor with one range, Is my understanding. Like, the extremes of the sensors would not be accurate past a temp or something. I believe its a 5v reference which means 3 wires(all go to PCM, 2 being hot on key on) or 2(if 2, both go to PCM) with the threads going into an intake that grounds to the same point the ECM Does... which... is on the intake...? Firewall? I remember reading about all this, something to do with isolated intake from the engine with a groundstrap to the firewall. While I say that, what kinds of grounds you got? Its just critical your engines TBI and engine sensors hanging out on the intake are grounded in a different path than something like a alternator case being wired to the same spot or where a engine block ground is. The ECM should also use a ground path without something like a window motor or a electric choke or a engine to fender ground is either. Stuff like that.

On your radiator cap, once your thermostat has opened, your radiator would go down.You add to it to keep it from going low, but once you see its stopped taking it down, like much at all, fill it and cap it. Your system needs to pressurize to be the right boil protection but your system does need to be open to fill it initially. You want to put a good amount in your overflow so it doesnt suck it low/dry(ha) and if you want to be sure, you can buy a lever release cap and safely release pressure if you want to check your work. But with a NEW cap thats working right, you should just fill it, start it, fill what gets circulated right away, then wait for it to warm enough, it will open, then you fill and when its not going down, its probably pretty darn close. Thats when you fill and cap, then double check your reservoir to have enough in it so it can overflow into but more importantly, have some in if it, say, shoots air out when it gets hot, then has a void it can pull coolant back inwith it. cooling down is what draws it in.

Check your sensor, check your dash ground, check your PCM for data or your PCM sensor for the voltage. Double check the spot on the intake where the sensor is with a heat gun and check the head next to the sensor and check your dash.Even a hose or the water neck to be double sure. you should see different numbers but they should be rational. The one on the intake is the sensor because the value works better for PCM stuff and it better represents the temperature for stoichiometric AFR than the cylinder head temp would. however that is is above my paygrade but they are quite the eggheads and gm doesnt like to piss away money on things except when they do but those things have a odd connection to eachother. this aint it. but science.
 

iamtherealJayy

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Which sensor am I needing to check? The one for gauge or the one on intake by thermostat? I replaced the one on intake not long ago, chasing running rich/high idle etc. The temp gauge read high before thermostat opened with the old sensor as well as the new one.
 

iamtherealJayy

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I'd try again with the cap on and see what happens. the gauges aren't super accurate if you think about the scale. but mine definitely doesn't hit 210 on the guage before the 195deg tstat opens.
That picture I sent above showing the idle at 1600 and temp at 210 was with the cap on after I filled it back up with coolant. It ended up gushing out over half a gallon. The gauge pretty much showed it going to roughly 235/245 ish? And then dropping to about 210 then not very long after it would start climbing back up then drop back down. Like the thermostat was open close open close.
 

iamtherealJayy

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Just drove the truck to work, about a 10 minute drive mostly 45 mph, watching the temp gauge the whole time I could literally watch it climb under acceleration and go back down when I let out of the throttle. It stayed above 210 majority of the trip according to the gauge. It got into red zone a couple times before dropping back down. Based off what gauge says the thermostat opens then closes almost instantly after it drops in temp. I could watch it go up go down go up the whole ride.
 

gmbellew

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I can see my t-stat open and close also, especially when it is cold out. and mine will climb in temp on the highway in long uphill runs also...but not that high. but the PO on my truck put in an oversized aluminum radiator...so it cools well.

you may try a couple things to make sure your gauge isn't way off (since you don't have access to a scanner to see what the CTS is telling the computer) -

1) verify t-stat works like it should in a pot of heated water on the stove
2) measure your actual block temp with an IR thermometer.
 

iamtherealJayy

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Just drove the truck home for lunch, it got to 260 several times on the gauge and never got below 210, maybe a needle width below 210. I know the thermostat is opening due to it dropping and upper radiator hose tight and hot. I’ll try to find a way to test the actual temperature all over the engine. I also think the thermostat made the idle worse. It kicks up to 2500 now when I put it in neutral rolling to a stop. Also idles around 1600 now. I usually shift around 2500 so it sounds like I have it floored when I’m rolling to a stop sign.
 

iamtherealJayy

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Also I’ve either had really bad luck with thermostats or somethings wrong. I had this problem last time when I had a 180° in it for the longest time probably 7-8 months then it started acting funky so I swapped it and thought oh maybe it was just time to change it. Then the next one did same thing and the truck was building enough pressure it would leak coolant around thermostat housing before the thermostat would open. That’s why I’d originally gone to a 160. To keep it cool and it opened sooner.
 

iamtherealJayy

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I reckon im going to bite the bullet and spend $60 on an aldl cable to plug into a laptop so I can monitor data. Or would it be possible to get an obd1 to obd2 adapter and monitor it with an obd2 tool?
 

AuroraGirl

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I reckon im going to bite the bullet and spend $60 on an aldl cable to plug into a laptop so I can monitor data. Or would it be possible to get an obd1 to obd2 adapter and monitor it with an obd2 tool?
Not likely. The only thing close to your question is a expensive old innova or actron type scanner which has multiple plugs for those old systems or a tech 1 /tech 1a which both had ability to do obd2 on gm till.. 2001? 2003? But the tech 2 replaced it despite the tech 2 only going to 91 for electronic transmission(that’s why it goes that far back)

Your truck idle is too high. You need to verify the iac is properly set. It won’t go below 1600 then there is an issue unless you have a vacuum leak.

Also, your cts on intake should not have the hookup for the gauge. The one for the gauge should be in the driver side head. It’s 1 wire.

How many is the one in the intake? And which one of the two did you change?

Part numbers?

Both should be tested. The one on head had an ohm test we can find and the intake has a fsm test I can look up

Also did you ever verify your prom chip when I mentioned long back
 

iamtherealJayy

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I believe it’s a three wire. Two going into a harness and one ground that is a few inches from the sensor. I don’t know the part number off head but I’ll look it up. How do I go about tested the one on the head? I have a multimeter, I think I know what the sensor is it’s between the first and third cylinder exhaust. No I don’t recall the prom chip. I have no idea about anything to do with the computer on this truck. Should I go back and re read what you’d said and try it? Also the idle was around 1200 but today it’s been at 1600 and kicks up to 2500 when I press clutch or put it in neutral. Driving sucked this morning.
 

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