Zinc, Engine oil and flat cams

[SirRobyn0]

I didn't want to post this in the main post, but I'd like to add this. On my personal truck I've been running regular conventional Valvoline 10W30, plus substituting a 1/2 quart with hyper-lube stabilizer. The reason being is that I run the truck pretty hard from time to time either loaded heavy or with the trailer, I figured it could use the extra protection of the stickiness. I've had pretty good luck on other vehicles with hyper-lube reducing oil leaks and smoking so I felt comfortable using. I run it in my Jeep which has lifter noise on start up and with the hyper-lube it doesn't do that. however in my research I learned hyper-lube stabilizer and the Lucas version are essentially just a thick sticky base stock without many if any additives. Fine for what it is I guess, but if you pour it in your engine you are thinning the other additives out. So in my example the 800PPM zinc in my motor oil might be closer to 700PPM after I've subbed out some of the oil with hyper-lube. My engine is stock and I change the oil every 3K, but I've decided to try diesel oil. I picked up a 2.5 gallon jug of Rotella and change the oil this morning. I do get a little puff of blue at start up do to worn valve stem seals, the hyper-lube did not seem to help that much if at all, so I'll be curious to see if the diesel oil changes it at all. 200 mile feed run tomorrow so I'll let you all know if I notice anything.

Just thought I'd up date this. From a driver prospective I cannot tell the difference between 10W30, with 1/2 quart of hyperlube vs 15W40 Rotella. Blue puff at start up seems about the same, oil use seems about the same, possibly slightly higher, but that would be the valve guides. What will I do at the next change? Not sure I'll prob stick with the 15W40 for now at least.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Conventional Valvoline for the win!

 

[Bextreme04]

I am breaking in a new engine right now. I used lucas 30w engine break-in oil for the initial cam breakin and about an hour of running and setup on the engine stand. I had to drain it out to change a leaking oil pan gasket and it was super black and shiny(like glittery shine) so I decided to chuck the oil and change the filter too just to be safe. I had some Jegs 10w30 engine break-in oil laying around so I put that in. I'll be doing the initial engine driving break-in with that for the next couple thousand miles and then likely switch to 5w30 or 10w30 synthetic after that.

 

[shanegtr]

But wait there is more. As a general rule the ZDDP levels in diesel oil have been going down as well. The down fall to Diesel oil is that it is very high detergent. Those high detergents will have the tendency to "wash away" a lot of that zinc before it has a chance to do it's job. That is one of the reasons that higher detergent oils didn't come along sooner for gas engines. Also the reason that oils such as VR1 and other high zinc oils have "reduced detergents and are not suitable for extended oil change intervals. We recommend no more than 3,000 miles between changes on VR1". That quote came from an Valvoline oil scientist. The scientist that would go on to say that if your running a stock engine with a well broken in camshaft that todays modern oil is likely to be just fine. If it's a high performance engine with heavier valve springs or high lift cam then VR1 would be the better choice. But again keep in mind that VR1 does not have as much detergents as modern oils.

Detergents also neutralise acids as they are alkaline based, its the main additive for the reserve alkalinity of engine oils. They will often (especially in the case of diesel oils) be used with a dispersant additive - thats all about preventing soot particles from agglomerating and keep them suspended in the oil so they will be flushed out at oil change time

 

[SirRobyn0]

Detergents also neutralise acids as they are alkaline based, its the main additive for the reserve alkalinity of engine oils. They will often (especially in the case of diesel oils) be used with a dispersant additive - thats all about preventing soot particles from agglomerating and keep them suspended in the oil so they will be flushed out at oil change time

I did not know that the detergents in motor oil alkaline based. Heck, I didn't even think about PH. Just another reason why a high zinc, lower detergent additive might not be the best thing for most of us.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Sorry guys and gals I was looking at this thread earlier and forgot I had it open, and responded to a old comment, which wasn't needed. So nothing new to see here. Sorry about that.

 

[Rusty Nail]

I did not know that the detergents in motor oil alkaline based. Heck, I didn't even think about PH. Just another reason why a high zinc, lower detergent additive might not be the best thing for most of us.

Troll deez.

Well...it's been this way for quite.some.time. now....you'd think if there was a bunch of validity to these concerns, there would be more information available and it would be widespread.
Instead? Nothing.

Some of us carried on like nothing happened while the others cried that the sky is falling and spend more money to buy peace of mind.

Doesnt seem like it works to me (buying peace of mind) they sure act nervous with all that zinc in their oil but it takes all kinds (I heard).

Makes me wonder how many people that buy zinc additives for their engine oil ALSO got covid boosters.
Just sayin.
I bet it's a bunch..


All they really sell is FEAR.

/shrug

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Hay DJ
Cue MEGADETH

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[68post]

Makes me wonder how many people that buy zinc additives for their engine oil ALSO got covid boosters.
Just sayin.
I bet it's a bunch..

What ??

 

[80BrownK10]

What ??

He means that they can be sold on something just by what they read or hear or see on tv.

 

[68post]

He means that they can be sold on something just by what they read or hear or see on tv.

I do recognize his direction, misguided as it may be. To think that no one ever needs either is truly foolish, (zinc adds are not needed as often I'm sure), attempting to link the two together shows a lack of true understanding of either.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ok I'm just going to say this now before something else happens. Look, like most everyone else I strong feelings on Covid, vaccines ect, but hardly anyone on this forum knows where I stand, except for a few that we have talked in PM. I don't feel the need to wear them on my sleeve and more over I don't wanna derail a motor oil thread into my opinion on Covid. Normally I don't mind and often even enjoy when a thread gets into a side discussion, but not this time, I'm not having it. You guys wanna talk about covid do it in the covid thread and not in the motor oil thread..... Oh wait the Covid thread got locked because of what happened there. Oh well, just don't derail this into a covid debate....

 

[80BrownK10]

Ok I'm just going to say this now before something else happens. Look, like most everyone else I strong feelings on Covid, vaccines ect, but hardly anyone on this forum knows where I stand, except for a few that we have talked in PM. I don't feel the need to wear them on my sleeve and more over I don't wanna derail a motor oil thread into my opinion on Covid. Normally I don't mind and often even enjoy when a thread gets into a side discussion, but not this time, I'm not having it. You guys wanna talk about covid do it in the covid thread and not in the motor oil thread..... Oh wait the Covid thread got locked because of what happened there. Oh well, just don't derail this into a covid debate....

Yep I agree. I want to read rants and endless discussions on oil not viruses.

 

[68post]

I agree that diesel oils may provide minimal gains because of the very high detergent levels that may scrub the zddp away. I've been using Hyper Lube Zinc Replacement additive in my flat tappet engines, it will allow you to use any off the shelf oil and provide better protection than even zddp.
This is a synthetic polymer ester, and more info can be found on BITOG. I've bought it at JB Tools much cheaper than Amazon or anywhere else.

Hy-Per Lube HPZ212 Zinc Replacement Additive - 12 oz.

Buy Hy-Per Lube HPZ212 Zinc Replacement Additive - 12 oz. with an everyday low price and fast shipping! JB Tool Sales

www.jbtools.com

"Better safe than sorry"
$.02

 

[SirRobyn0]

I agree that diesel oils may provide minimal gains because of the very high detergent levels that may scrub the zddp away. I've been using Hyper Lube Zinc Replacement additive in my flat tappet engines, it will allow you to use any off the shelf oil and provide better protection than even zddp.
This is a synthetic polymer ester, and more info can be found on BITOG. I've bought it at JB Tools much cheaper than Amazon or anywhere else.

Hy-Per Lube HPZ212 Zinc Replacement Additive - 12 oz.

Buy Hy-Per Lube HPZ212 Zinc Replacement Additive - 12 oz. with an everyday low price and fast shipping! JB Tool Sales

www.jbtools.com

"Better safe than sorry"
$.02

IDK if this is mentioned in this thread already... Probably. But there is such a thing as to much zinc, to much zinc can shorten the life of an engine. I've said my opinion zinc that I remember. I'm on the diesel oil program these days, my main reason isn't the zinc levels, it's because my diesel equipment on the farm needs it, and it's approved for use in gas engines.

 

[fast 99]

A real good idea is getting an oil analysis on an engine. It isn't expensive and the results will surprise. I use Blackstone labs.

Oil Analysis | Blackstone Laboratories

Learn what's going on in your engine with oil analysis. Our free kits are easy to use and we explain the results in plain English! Since 1985.

www.blackstone-labs.com