wheelin' it

[Raider L]

Now I don't know much about 4 wheeling. You guys who do are in a class all by yourselves. So I trust that each one of you have distinct preferences when it comes to certain types of equipment and gear. But let me ask you all a question that to drive a off road vehicle couldn't be done without one, and that is steering wheels.

And here's the question. Which is better to steer, handle, control, or whatever needs to be done to go over some of these giant rocks I've seen in magazines, gullies, deep ruts, rock fields, boulders (which I just don't understand how you do it), deep mud and every other surface I would never take my truck over, through, or whatever.

So which is better a large steering wheel, or a small steering wheel? And why? Since I don't know of anything specific the only reference I have would be a steering wheel like one of those big steering wheels like an older Chevy pickup has, or some small custom steering wheels like from Grant? I would guess Grant has steering wheels that are as big as a stock steering wheel, but I have a Grant wheel on my truck and it is smaller than the stock steering wheel that came off of it. Now if someone asked me why I have a small steering wheel on my truck and why I like it more than a stock big wheel would be it has a tighter turning radius and doesn't have to be turned as far to make a turn, it's quicker, faster.
So what are your opinions, and why?

 

[77 K20]

Small steering wheel. If you are truly doing something where you need to get the front tires to turn you don't rely on arm strength to force the steering wheel around. You end up getting a higher volume/pressure PSC steering pump and/or get hydraulic ram assisted steering or go full hydraulic steer.

With a smaller steering wheel you can then lean way out your open window to try and get a better view. You can also stretch and try and "stand up" to see over the massive hood. I do all of that without the seatbelt on to provide better view of going over or around objects.

Not to mention if you do hit a massive bump in the trail you don't want bruises on your legs/lap/junk from being so close to a large steering wheel.

 

[Raider L]

Thank you @77 K20.

Anyone else?? This is a good start. So 77 K20 uses a smaller wheel as a matter of convenience to be able to see where he's going trail busting. But does it lend to better control rolling over rough terrain? Or climbing over rocks? And all the other stuff you guys do. Big steering wheel or small steering wheel?

 

[Frankenchevy]

Thank you @77 K20.

Anyone else?? This is a good start. So 77 K20 uses a smaller wheel as a matter of convenience to be able to see where he's going trail busting. But does it lend to better control rolling over rough terrain? Or climbing over rocks? And all the other stuff you guys do. Big steering wheel or small steering wheel?

Is your truck hydroboost or no? Stock or no?

Guys pushing big tires will either go full hydro (non-highway) or hydro-assist. This can be done many ways from simply tapping your factory box (I think Vince did a write up on that) to full aftermarket ram assist.

35” tires and smaller, you can probably get away with a factory setup. In that case a stock wheel is likely fine too, because you’re probably not getting that crazy.

I prefer the look of the factory steering wheel.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

No need for an oversized steering wheel, as mentioned above, many go to hydraulic assisted steering or fully hydraulic for like the rock bouncer rigs. The old trucks had big steering wheels for the leverage, because no power steering. They also go with crossover steering opposed to stock.

I'd prefer a "regular" size wheel, like the gmt400's. Don't go larger, you'll have no room to poke your head out the window, and when your getting tossed around on obstacles, you won't bang your knees/legs as much. The head poking ability is a very big thing for me personally.

I've found that big steering wheels make it hard to look at your tires while traversing obstacles in a lifted truck, which is very important, both alone and with others. I also wouldnt want quick ratio steering, for activities like rock crawling, for racing? Sure. But a driving and trail rig, no way.

Those dinky little wheels are hard to hold onto and makes the steering "feel" atrocious, almost makes me less confident. The larger wheel gives you a slower ratio for more precise driving.

 

[77 K20]

Non hydroboost. I do have a somewhat new stock power steering pump and a new 2wd steering box. Truck steers well unless I have a front tire wedged in the rocks. I will get a PSC power steering pump this summer (mainly to run a hydraulic winch).

I'll probably go ram assist in a year or two, but have other items on my wish list first.

I find that I have to "saw" my steering wheel back and forth when following Jeeps in the snow. Their tracks are narrower- and if I am not 100% centered in their tracks then my truck will pull hard to one of the sides. A smaller wheel lets me do easier and faster corrections.

 

[Raider L]

Great! More, more!

 

[Raider L]

Will one of ya'll tell me what "crossover steering " is? I came across that not only ya'll's post but in an 4x4 article I was reading earlier.

 

[Frankenchevy]

Will one of ya'll tell me what "crossover steering " is? I came across that not only ya'll's post but in an 4x4 article I was reading earlier.

It eliminates the drag link for a bar that connects the passenger side knuckle to the pitman arm. Think ipsilateral vs contralateral..

 

[77 K20]

Will one of ya'll tell me what "crossover steering " is? I came across that not only ya'll's post but in an 4x4 article I was reading earlier.

From the steering box it "crosses over" to the passenger side to steer the truck.

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It allows the steering to still function when the front axle gets articulated. With the stock steering if your driver side tire gets stuffed (goes up) or droops in a hole (goes down) the short stock drag link can't handle that as it has to be somewhat horizontal to be able to push and pull front to back.

Look at the drag link is this pic: the drag link is pointed downwards at probably a 40 degree angle. This made the tires steer to the left without even moving the steering wheel. Sure- you can counter steer to go straight. But if you want to turn right you can't anymore.

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Here is another pic of crossover steer when I was doing my install. Shows some parts better. *This turned out to be the wrong 2wd steering arm. Needed one that was moved up (closer to the frame). The suspension has roughly 5.5" of up travel. With this arm the suspension would hit it.

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[Raider L]

@77 K20,

Yeah, I kinda get it. I can see where the steering has more space to turn but I think there's some physics there with the angles that I'll just have to learn as I go. I'll have to re-read what you've written and look at the pics, then maybe it'll dawn on me. I can't be expected to get a complex steering geometry problem right off. I left my PhD brain in my other coat. Thank you.

 

[Raider L]

@Frankenchevy,

Ha, ha, ha, ipsi-what, contra-what? Speak English!

 

[77 K20]

@77 K20,

Yeah, I kinda get it. I can see where the steering has more space to turn but I think there's some physics there with the angles that I'll just have to learn as I go. I'll have to re-read what you've written and look at the pics, then maybe it'll dawn on me. I can't be expected to get a complex steering geometry problem right off. I left my PhD brain in my other coat. Thank you.

In a nutshell someone explained to me once that a crossover steering bar is roughly 3 times longer than that short stock draglink for steering. The longer something is the less it will be affected by angles.

And you will get some angles with ORD suspension that has up to 14" of travel.

Maybe that will put it in a different light.

 

[Raider L]

@77 K20,

Yeah, I'm starting to see it now. Not having any experience with 4 wheeling it takes my mind a bit to grasp the tech. I see the leverage of the longer bar on the steering angle, and how limited it is with the stock link. I guess steering in and around ruts and snow, sand, rocks in the road you couldn't do enough steering with a stock arm. You'd run out of steer with the stock link. With the long bar the wheels can turn a lot longer distance to get the vehicle around or over something. But since it can steer further, the frame doesn't get in the way?

Does that sound like I'm on track?

 

[PrairieDrifter]

@77 K20,

Yeah, I'm starting to see it now. Not having any experience with 4 wheeling it takes my mind a bit to grasp the tech. I see the leverage of the longer bar on the steering angle, and how limited it is with the stock link. I guess steering in and around ruts and snow, sand, rocks in the road you couldn't do enough steering with a stock arm. You'd run out of steer with the stock link. With the long bar the wheels can turn a lot longer distance to get the vehicle around or over something. But since it can steer further, the frame doesn't get in the way?

Does that sound like I'm on track?

Sort of, it's more of the articulation of the suspension in conjunction with the type of steering setup. The stock 4x4 steering is a push/pull style, which basically means it's parallel to the frame and it pushes or pulls on the steering arm. It's not necessarily the leverage just because it's longer. It's more of the geometry of the steering link.

That's why when guys lift, they have to get a raised steering arm to compensate for the lift, the drag link needs to as close to parallel as possible with the ground also. With a push/pull style steering, imagine going like 60 and hitting a dip in the road, the suspension will compress and the axle will lift, that will "push" the steering arm back, even with keeping the wheel straight, when it decompresses it does the opposite, this would be called bump steer. Now imagine the suspension being flexed on an obstacle, not only can you physically not turn because of steering geometry, but it also turns when you don't want it to because of flex.