Towing with a 305 V8?

[SquareRoot]

"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world". Not mine.

As long as that fulcrum isn't a 700r4. Lol

 

[Turbo4whl]

Look at what I found today,this deal with why do some trucks do fine without esc and others don't is really bothering me.Someplaces list a 305 c10 engine kit 81-84 but nothing 85 up, then I found this that shows a different kit 85,86 and another 87 up. Possibly just a different gasket set but I'd think if that was the only change everyone would list 85 up kits IDK things that make you go hmmm.

Hey Rick, did the ESC 305 heads have larger valves?

 

[Ricko1966]

-Archimedes. This is a quote even older than me.

Look at the 301-807 castings,that tells me yes the there were different valve sizes,I just don't know what years and engine codes got which heads that's not an entire list of 305 heads either. So another part of the mystery maybe all the esc 305s don't have the same heads. @Turbo4whl sorry forgot to attach the pic.

 

[SirRobyn0]

@SirRobyn0, My trailer weighs 2,000lbs empty and I am estimating that it will be about 5k loaded. I put a 6k axle on it, but I think it unlikely that I will ever load it that heavy. It is my welding rig, so it will have a pretty much always be fully loaded.
My wheels are 15in.
Thank you for the explanation on the EGR and ESC that really clears things up. I am going to leave both of them alone and try rebuilding my Qjet again, see if I can make it work.
I can definitely devote a few days to swaping the gears, just wanted to be sure that I wasn't being arrogant thinking I could do it.
At this point I will Probably try to find a heavier duty truck for my main driver, and set my square body up as a backup.

I think that your truck as is will pull that trailer okish. I think lowering the gear ratio would be better and you'd strain the power train less. A 305 will never win a towing speed race, but she'll pull it just fine. If I were in your shoes I'd get the trailer wiring, including brake controller wired up, and I'd attach the trailer and see how she does. Don't forget to add a transmission cooler if you have an automatic.

I think SirRobyn0 had a decent theory about wear and manufacturing variations. Whether an ESC delete helps or hurts an engine likely depends on the particular engine in question. I'm looking hard at the modern MSD systems because of the programming aspect. The '80s/'90s ESC is built for a factory fresh stock 305, so a worn or modified 305 could cause conflict. A programmable ESC system could allow someone to tailor the system to their particular engine's needs, rather than be stuck at a fixed factory setting.

I've looked at that. If MSD made a system that used a knock sensor I'd be all over it. The worst part of the ESC system is that there is no good source for a new control unit. Used or chitty reman's are all that seem to be out there.

 

[Matt69olds]

Where is the choke pull off?

Just my opinion, keep the Q- Jet. You will never equal the fuel economy or drivability of a well tuned Q-Jet with a Holley or edelbrock. Get the factory carb right, even if that means sending it to a specialist.

If you’re serious about towing with that truck, put 3.73 or 4.10 gears in it. That will make a huge difference in get up and go (especially loaded) and will still have a top speed higher than any stock squarebody should ever go.

Put the biggest transmission cooler you can find on the truck. A mild shift kit wouldn’t be a bad idea. A drain plug in the pan will make filter changes much cleaner!

As long as the engine has the wheaties to pull without constant upshifting/downshifting, towing in overdrive won’t hurt anything. Definitely make sure the converter clutch works. That’s easy enough to check, get the truck up to around 50mph. Without letting off the throttle, lightly tap the brake pedal. Not enough to actually slow the truck, just enough to turn on the brake lights. If it’s working correctly you will hear the engine rev s couple hundred rpm higher.

If you like the truck, definitely get the trailer brakes working.

 

[SirRobyn0]

As long as the engine has the wheaties to pull without constant upshifting/downshifting, towing in overdrive won’t hurt anything.

Your one of the trusted tranny guys here, so my question to you on that, then is why was recommended to not tow in overdrive in the owners manual? Is it just because it safe, no risk of an idiot not paying attention letting her shift so much she burns up? I'm asking because (and I'm not trying to distract from the OP's question), but in my scenario I've been debating 4.10's or 4.56's, with 4.56's I'd likely end up in at least some scenarios where towing in OD would be necessary to keep up with the speed of traffic on the highway, and certainly there'd be a lot of cases where I'd need to do it with a ton of feed in the bed. So in your opinion it's fine as long as there isn't to much up / down shifting?

 

[Rusty Nail]

✓ big fan of #416 heads.
Open the exhaust to 1.60s and they ROCK!

I was hoping to wait to get there but whatever it's the internet.
LoL @ that rubber fuel line. I reckon it'll be okay for a while, some dude twisted the other one is all. 5/8 AND 1 inch.
You can find another one without too much trouble but fix the carb first huh? Rubber fuel lines like that fail because dudes don't take good care of them. Gonna want to keep an eye out.

Sure is a lot of silicone in that carb dude. Between that and the missing AIR horn screws naw, it don't run worth a damn. Easy to tell - only by lookin.

The good news is that you can try a different air horn screws in your open holes to help find a match. I don't know if they are all the same but some may vary in length is all. Bad news IS they are gonna be tough to find at the local ACE. Finding them screws might take a while and it'll never run right until you do.
May be why it leaks , check it out.

 

[Ellie Niner]

That is the before rebuild picture, here is the After.

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I bought a Hi-Grade brand kit, and followed the directions (what little there were). I think there might be a defect in the casting, that it doesn't fully compress the gasket. But yes I bought a rebuild Kit

The Q-jets with that dual displacement accelerator pump solenoid tend to warp badly in the area between the carb-to-manifold bolt, going around the front of the solenoid where the air horn casting is really thin. It's right where you have the schmoo smeared; the metal aways bows up there, leaving you with a leak or a seep of fuel when it sloshes around in the bowl. The sh¡tty metal cold creeps over time even if the bolts and screws aren't overtightened. Mine also had enough warpage to cause internal vacuum leaks between air horn and main body, and I had to do a considerable amount of straightening during this last rebuild. Still ended up with a minor vacuum leak and lean idle, which fortunately sealed itself as the gasket swelled after being wet with fuel for awhile. For my truck and what I'm using it for, the original Quadrajet works very well, so it was worth the time to get it right.

Having screwed with the so called "emissions crap" almost enough to be dangerous, and with an engineering background, I've ended up with the majority of mine still intact. I've experimented both ways, and have found that the truck often runs better with the stuff installed... and working properly. I finally fixed my ESC awhile back, as I couldn't run enough advance to eke out all 165 hahahorsepower without the thing detonating under heavy load (like towing). Running premium helped, but it still pinged a bit... and I was getting tired of feeding the fuel swilling bastard the expensive stuff.

As much as I dig simplicity and less bullsh¡t, I wouldn't strip everything off and just chuck it. At the very least, hang on to whatever you might pull off in case you need to backpedal if the truck performs worse after a modification.

One other thing I would do if you're going to tow with a 700R4 is make sure your TCC is locking up in 3rd gear (it'll even lock up in 2nd if you go fast enough). Lockup in these gears is controlled my manifold vacuum, and runs through a Thermal Vacuum Switch and a vacuum delay valve. This is one of those things that will cease to function if everything is stripped off.

 

[Ellie Niner]

Your one of the trusted tranny guys here, so my question to you on that, then is why was recommended to not tow in overdrive in the owners manual? Is it just because it safe, no risk of an idiot not paying attention letting her shift so much she burns up? I'm asking because (and I'm not trying to distract from the OP's question), but in my scenario I've been debating 4.10's or 4.56's, with 4.56's I'd likely end up in at least some scenarios where towing in OD would be necessary to keep up with the speed of traffic on the highway, and certainly there'd be a lot of cases where I'd need to do it with a ton of feed in the bed. So in your opinion it's fine as long as there isn't to much up / down shifting?

I ain't the requested expert, but about the only thing I can think of is that there's a band that's applied in 2nd and 4th gear that can slip under heavy torque loads. They make a band with more surface area and a larger servo that applies more clamping force. It was the 3-4 clutches that would cook if your engine didn't have enough huevos to hold 4th gear. The fluid flows slower through the cooler in OD, but that'd probably be mitigated at least somewhat with a shorter final drive... and cooled more efficiently with an external cooler.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Hey OP note the reoccurring theme ? Lots of good dudes all suggest an external transmission cooler. They are both fun and easy to install, my favorites are made by PermaCool and you can buy them at the corner parts store for cheap. There is one in both of my trucks.

 

[Matt69olds]

Inattentive drivers, and the weezing underpowered engines of the day is the reason why they say not to tow in overdrive. As long as nothing slips in the trans, probably 80% of the heat created in the transmission comes from the torque converter. The transmission really doesnt care what gear it’s in, as long as it doesn’t slip or overheat.

The aftermarket does offer wide bands that span the entire width of the drum it’s wrapped around. There are also servos that provide more clamping force. There are 5 different servo sizes if I remember. TransGo includes different accumulator spring in their shift kits to tame the aggressive shifts of the larger servo.

I don’t think you can go wrong with 3.73 or 4.10. A big heavy truck hauling a trailer with an underpowered engine needs all the mechanical advantages it can get.

 

[Velder]

@Matt69olds , There is a choke pull-off, you can see it bottom left of this pic. I replaced it when I did the rebuild. I've seen that some have one on the front as well, but this one only has the one. I am going to try to keep the Qjet, I really do not want to send it off, and have know idea where to send it any way, so I will be attempting a second rebuild.

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[Velder]

@Rusty Nail Transmission cooler is definitely a must, than you for the brand recommendation. As to the missing screws that really puzzles me, if I remember correctly, the instructions mention 13 airhorn screws, and I had all of those, but why those holes are there is beyond me. I am going to go ahead and post the pictures I took during my rebuild, maybe ya'll will see something that I missed, or did wrong. I really hated putting the silicone on there, but it was seeping fuel pretty bad, how do I go about flatting it without cracking the casting? I will keep a sharp eye on that rubber fuel hose until I get a new steel one bent up.
Any way here are some of the pics.

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In the one above you can see the hole in question, and the screw that is there

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The little clip that lifts the needle, was inserted through the hole as you see it. The instructions said to hang it over the edge NOT through the hole so I guess someone at some point had this open and put it back wrong?

 

[Velder]

@Ellie Niner That is exactly what appears to have happened. It was only leaking right around the solenoid where the casting is super thin. How did you flatten Yours?
Thank you for the input on the emissions stuff, I have decided to leave all of that alone, I certainly don't have the expertise to try and sort all of that out, so it gets to stay.
Would you mind elaborating a little more on the TCC locking up in third gear? how do I check that? I don't really know that much about transmissions (or engines in general for that matter ).

 

[Velder]

Here are a few more pics from the rebuild.(or should I say teardown)

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Yes I removed this thing, No I did not count the number of turns.

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