The old 700R4 questions!

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UKSquarebody

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Good morning all,

I have just bought a 1987 C10 longbed here in the UK.
It has been fitted with warmed up 327, with a 700R4 transmission.
Am I right in thinking the 700R4 would have been factory by 1987?
There is no wiring going to the transmission - the square plug is on the gearbox, but no wiring to the box.
So - I have no 4th overdrive wiring.
I also need help identifiying which 700R4 I have - normally open or normally closed pressure switch?!
I have had to remove the sump pan already - so hope the attached photo helps someone help me ID the internal wiring.

Cheers,
Keith
 

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Matt69olds

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You have 4th gear without the wiring. What you don’t have is a locking torque converter.

Use a continuity tester to determine if the pressure switch is normally open or closed.

TCI, Painless wiring, all make lockup kits of if you don’t want to make your own. bow tie overdrive makes a really nice one, but it’s also the most expensive.
 

Long Rider

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Slightly off topic but! I was a Service manager at a Chevrolet dealership when the 700R4 came out and we had about a billion transmission fails. I don't know what has been done to your transmission but I would strongly recommend that you never use the OD if you have any kind of load or are in hilly country or even in a strong headwind. That transmission will kick into and out of OD about 60 times a second when under a load. As with any other OD equipped transmission it nearly always better to not use the OD during in town driving. They work great on the highway so long as your not running up and down mountains. They help the milage a bunch on mostly flat highways. It sounds like your going to have a great rig.
 

vr1967

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The 700r4 came out in the 1982 year model as an option.
Somewhere around mid 84 they changed input shafts from 27 to 30 spline. Then somewhere in 87, they changed the valve body.
 

BadBowtie

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Correct, 1982 in the trucks. 1987 is when the 30 spline shades came out. Improved valve body & larger sun gear shell.

No matter what, add an external transmission oil cooler too. The bigger the better..
 
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59840Surfer

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Slightly off topic but! I was a Service manager at a Chevrolet dealership when the 700R4 came out and we had about a billion transmission fails. I don't know what has been done to your transmission but I would strongly recommend that you never use the OD if you have any kind of load or are in hilly country or even in a strong headwind. That transmission will kick into and out of OD about 60 times a second when under a load. As with any other OD equipped transmission it nearly always better to not use the OD during in town driving. They work great on the highway so long as your not running up and down mountains. They help the milage a bunch on mostly flat highways. It sounds like your going to have a great rig.
I don't know where you got your information but from a dealership, I can guess.

The early 700s had parts failures and were basically a field test for GM to see how they stood up in public hands - but to say that the OD would "shuttle shift" (that was the factory official term for that problem) 60 times a second is not only a lie, but physically impossible.

Shuttle shifting was a mistake in terminology and a malaprop - but a dealership wouldn''t know it because what happened inside a transmission, for a dealership - was black magic and wizardry and although a dealership had the best possible training available from the factory, the dealers wouldn't let their "technicians" go for it because it cost the dealership the money it needed to keep the hot-n-cold running secretaries in the owner's office suites.

There --- now I've made a generality too - just like you.

Back to the whole truth --- leave the transmission in OD and let it work as it is designed --- I've seen too many units come into my shop where the owner would shake and turn white if I told him it was to be used and the only time to use a lower gear was (mostly) for engine braking --- and at those times when dropping into 3rd/Direct was somewhat easier on the engine as you could keep it in it's best torque-range for better driveability.

In the early-to-mid 1960s, the automotive world was still coming out of some really bad post war engineering and OD was a weak gear that shouldn't be abused --- on most vehicles to date. But statements like yours were inflammatory and although it sounds like the ignorant things that were said about vehicles, it was just bald-faced lies and poor understanding of the magic and mysteries going on inside the transmission.

For the record --- besides being the owner/operator of a few (3) auto repair shops (I also owned and operated a couple (2) of independent transmission shops in SoCal, where from 1962 I was a BAR/Cal-EPA Inspector and Brake-Lamp & Smog Inspector/Installer/Adjuster)--- I made my living correcting bad theories and ghost stories told by incompetent "mechanics" who were still stuck in the 1950s haywire-and-friction tape era of technology.

So don't go blowing all the "60 times a second" dealer-talk around; it's just bad for the industry and really shows some people as being truly ignorant about things-mechanical.

I own/drive/tow a 3-cord logging trailer behind ---> and generally mistreat my own '86 K5 with a stroker 383 and the THM700R4 transmission in it is the one I rebuilt over 30 years ago and you can bet that I use OD constantly.

That said ---->what I DON'T use all the time is: TCC - which I control from a rocker switch on my center console. I have destroyed the sprag once before with a high RPM/WOT shift and I'd like to avoid that.

I'm gonna copy/paste your post and email the .pdf to a buddy who's still in the transmission business - so he can display it in his shop.

We'll Zoom-laugh over a Dos Eques over that one --- 'cause we thought all you pre-boomers were dead by now.
 

gmbellew

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for stock motor and tire size, I'd agree that OD is fine all the time except towing. let the transmission do its thing as designed.

if you're running an increased tire size without regearing to a ratio that would restore the original gearing to tire size ratios, then running in D around town or anytime not consistently cruising above 60mph works best for me to have the best drivability and not lug the engine. thats with letting TCC lock automatically, not manually controlled.
 

Matt69olds

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I don't know where you got your information but from a dealership, I can guess.

The early 700s had parts failures and were basically a field test for GM to see how they stood up in public hands - but to say that the OD would "shuttle shift" (that was the factory official term for that problem) 60 times a second is not only a lie, but physically impossible.

Shuttle shifting was a mistake in terminology and a malaprop - but a dealership wouldn''t know it because what happened inside a transmission, for a dealership - was black magic and wizardry and although a dealership had the best possible training available from the factory, the dealers wouldn't let their "technicians" go for it because it cost the dealership the money it needed to keep the hot-n-cold running secretaries in the owner's office suites.

There --- now I've made a generality too - just like you.

Back to the whole truth --- leave the transmission in OD and let it work as it is designed --- I've seen too many units come into my shop where the owner would shake and turn white if I told him it was to be used and the only time to use a lower gear was (mostly) for engine braking --- and at those times when dropping into 3rd/Direct was somewhat easier on the engine as you could keep it in it's best torque-range for better driveability.

In the early-to-mid 1960s, the automotive world was still coming out of some really bad post war engineering and OD was a weak gear that shouldn't be abused --- on most vehicles to date. But statements like yours were inflammatory and although it sounds like the ignorant things that were said about vehicles, it was just bald-faced lies and poor understanding of the magic and mysteries going on inside the transmission.

For the record --- besides being the owner/operator of a few (3) auto repair shops (I also owned and operated a couple (2) of independent transmission shops in SoCal, where from 1962 I was a BAR/Cal-EPA Inspector and Brake-Lamp & Smog Inspector/Installer/Adjuster)--- I made my living correcting bad theories and ghost stories told by incompetent "mechanics" who were still stuck in the 1950s haywire-and-friction tape era of technology.

So don't go blowing all the "60 times a second" dealer-talk around; it's just bad for the industry and really shows some people as being truly ignorant about things-mechanical.

I own/drive/tow a 3-cord logging trailer behind ---> and generally mistreat my own '86 K5 with a stroker 383 and the THM700R4 transmission in it is the one I rebuilt over 30 years ago and you can bet that I use OD constantly.

That said ---->what I DON'T use all the time is: TCC - which I control from a rocker switch on my center console. I have destroyed the sprag once before with a high RPM/WOT shift and I'd like to avoid that.

I'm gonna copy/paste your post and email the .pdf to a buddy who's still in the transmission business - so he can display it in his shop.

We'll Zoom-laugh over a Dos Eques over that one --- 'cause we thought all you pre-boomers were dead by now.
Finally, someone with a clue.

The 700 trans came out in 1982. You have to understand the way GM was run in those days. All the real car guys had either left or were on their way out, and were replaced by bean counters. Unfortunately, GM engineers were more concerned with meeting emissions and mileage requirements, durability unfortunately wasn’t as high on the priority list.

Gone were the days when a design was pretty well established before the public saw it. The customer more often than not was the final step in product development. In typical GM fashion, a component was released just a little sooner than it should have, the customer found the weak links, GM would fix those, the next weak link is discovered, and the process continues until the design is perfected, then it’s discontinued to make room for the next rushed product, the process repeats itself.

As I mentioned, the 700 was released in 1982. It received a update in 84 (bigger input shaft, among other things) then a redesign again in 87 with the addition of a auxiliary valve body, increased 3-4 clutch count, then a major redesign in 93 with the introduction of the 4L60E.

As long as the engine has the torque to pull the truck loaded, the trans could not care any less if you tow in drive or overdrive. As long as the transmission doesn’t “hunt” (constantly downshifting/upshifting) and the converter or trans is t slipping, towing in overdrive is perfectly acceptable. The transmission “hunting” causes heat, which is what damages the transmission.
 

BadBowtie

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Change that trans fluid on a good maintenance schedule vs what you are using the 700R4 vehicle for. A bottle of Lucas trans conditioner is advised as well during these changes....
 

Shoote

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I have a 1985 2 wheel drive long bed that I installed a 502 crate motor in back in 2000. I had the 700r4 trans beefed up and put a girdle on the 10 bolt rear end, and changed gearing from 273 to 373. I always use Amsoil fluids. I do not drive this truck hard, it is not a race truck, but I did often pull a 10,000 pound Fountain with this truck and I have never had an issue with the drive line. I put a 28,000 BTU external transmission cooler on it and installed a B and M transmission temp guage in the aluminum finned over sized trans pan to keep an eye on the temperature. 700R4 is a good trans.
 

Long Rider

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Well at least I gave you a chance to bellow at someone. I was a service manager at a Chevy dealership in a small farming community. I can only speak from my experience when the first 700R4 came out. Lots of farmers and loggers bought new trucks and for whatever reason the transmissions failed. I only posted what Chevrolet told us the problem was at the time. They, Chevrolet sent out a couple pages of warnings to owners of trucks with the R4 instructing them not to use the overdrive mode when under a load. We inserted the warning in all the new owners manuals that we had in the new trucks we sold with the R4. I know it costs GM a bunch of money doing warranty work and replacement.
 

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