Starter mounting on a 350

[SirRobyn0]

I'm going to be the guy that disagrees with the use of a mini-starter. And if you insist on one, use a factory starter meant for a vortec.

I've got a 65 Impala in the shop right now, with a later 350 in it and headers. I had to get one of those high torque mini-starters cost was about $250 IIRC, so you can get a factory or vortec starter for a lot less.

Also you have a compromised mount, the last thing you need is more torque down there!

And last, you don't get much for changing to a different starter except a little added space. I understand why guys with Chryslers go to starters from magnum engines, because the old stock Chrysler starters turned very slowly and drew a lot of power. With our trucks the original starter, other than being larger were pretty good.

Of course that is just opinion.

 

[Ricko1966]

I the reason I said stud that hole is he can sink a stud all the way to the end of the bolt hole,and use a nut for the tension. If he uses a bolt he will have to leave room to tighten the bolt.It might just be an extra 2 threads but that might make all the difference. And as I said a couple of posts back the newer starters will have bigger bolt holes which compromises things even further. Just for fun I did the math the difference in the mounting holes in the starters is 1/32nd of an inch.

 

[idahovette]

Had to use a mini starter on Kooper's(Grandson) S10 that we swapped a 327 into. Used a 96-97 GM didn't work very good had big problems, grinding etc. Talked to an old friend that has an alternator-starter-generator rebuilding shop. He asked what year the block was, told him a 1963 Chevy 327 block. He told me that the only starter to use on these blocks is one with the cast nose cone.....first I'd ever heard of this. Anyway told him, no good, no room. The starter was too far away from the flywheel(flex plate) He told me I was SOL. Looking in Jegs or Summit, which ever, I found the Power Master adjustable body starter with the aluminum block that mounts it to the engine block. Ordered one and removed the mounting block and machined 3/32 from the mounting surface. Installed it, held my breath and turned the key. Fired, with NO noise and worked like a champ. Flex plate was kinda chewed, but it works. This was the ONLY solution to our problem, other than putting the 4 cylinder back in.............NOT GONNA HAPPEN, this S10 is too much fun

 

[SirRobyn0]

Had to use a mini starter on Kooper's(Grandson) S10 that we swapped a 327 into. Used a 96-97 GM didn't work very good had big problems, grinding etc. Talked to an old friend that has an alternator-starter-generator rebuilding shop. He asked what year the block was, told him a 1963 Chevy 327 block. He told me that the only starter to use on these blocks is one with the cast nose cone.....first I'd ever heard of this. Anyway told him, no good, no room. The starter was too far away from the flywheel(flex plate) He told me I was SOL. Looking in Jegs or Summit, which ever, I found the Power Master adjustable body starter with the aluminum block that mounts it to the engine block. Ordered one and removed the mounting block and machined 3/32 from the mounting surface. Installed it, held my breath and turned the key. Fired, with NO noise and worked like a champ. Flex plate was kinda chewed, but it works. This was the ONLY solution to our problem, other than putting the 4 cylinder back in.............NOT GONNA HAPPEN, this S10 is too much fun

Thanks for the tip right there. The Impala I was mentioning earlier on. The reason for the starter replacement was interment clicking. The new mini-starter, is just like the old one and is clockable, has to be these headers this guy has is awful. Well I put the new unit in at the end of the day last week and all it wants to do is grind. I'll take a look at the mounting block thickness between the two and see if that might be playing a role.

 

[Ricko1966]

Robin why are you having to use a mini starter on the 65? I built a 64 with a newer 350 and headers ran a 1970 caprice 350 starter no problem. My 66 chevelle has headers and a full size starter is a huge pita to install,but I got a full size starter in there. Is there room for a full size starter if you could physically get it into position. On the chevelle I have to pull 1 header loose from the head to get the starter in and out but once it's in its fine.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Robin why are you having to use a mini starter on the 65? I built a 64 with a newer 350 and headers ran a 1970 caprice 350 starter no problem. My 66 chevelle has headers and a full size starter is a huge pita to install,but I got a full size starter in there. Is there room for a full size starter if you could physically get it into position. On the chevelle I have to pull 1 header loose from the head to get the starter in and out but once it's in its fine.

No room, or at least limited room, plus customers preference. I'm not going to say a full size wouldn't fit, but it would be tight, and would definitely require loosening the header to get it into place. It's what he had in there and wants it replaced with. You know how that goes.

 

[AuroraGirl]

That to me appears the inside starter bolt fell out or was unthreaded at some point prior to the starter being engaged. The starter then torqued hard and levered against the weaker point of the block.
Now, if the crack does not go all the way through to the top of the ear......
Verify the hole for the outside bolt is all the way through and ensure the entire length is threaded. Then chase the threads COMPLETELY and then clean out using compressed air or if unavailable, brake cleaner.
Locate a Grade 8 bolt with enough threads to completely engage the entire length of the threaded portion, then apply a small amount of nickle antisieze, thread in the bolt.

Barring anything else, make friends with a reputable weldor, and have him/her weld that up. Pay the weldor the invoice promptly and with a modest bottle of gut-rot - you need to make good contacts early in your career, and this will go a very long way.

You will need to spend some quality time re-forming the bolt hole and re-threading it correctly. If you have an old starter, disassemble it to leave only the portion required to put the bolts through - use that as a guide to ensure everything is square. Use a smaller drill bit with a small piece of hard tubing that fits snugly in the starter hole (guide.)

Good luck.

If one uses a rear bracket, some metal epoxy or methods you said. AND new bolts. They should be able to be ok. I would say a pg260 upgrade but that would eliminate the ability to take force off the weak spot with the bracket.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I the reason I said stud that hole is he can sink a stud all the way to the end of the bolt hole,and use a nut for the tension. If he uses a bolt he will have to leave room to tighten the bolt.It might just be an extra 2 threads but that might make all the difference. And as I said a couple of posts back the newer starters will have bigger bolt holes which compromises things even further. Just for fun I did the math the difference in the mounting holes in the starters is 1/32nd of an inch.

You HAVE to use new bolts when you use a pg260 (mini) starter in place of the 10mt they came with. If you do Not, you WILL damage (with time esp) something.

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[Vetal4]

I'll add my (somewhat) related 2 cents here. A couple of years ago I was hunting in norther NM, going over a bunch of rough terrain in my K20. Got in early and hunted for a few hours (no luck). Went to leave and the starter just spun. Turns out I had lost a starter bolt and the other won was hanging by a thread. I tightened an aligned in the field as best I could with one bolt, made horrible noises stating but I got home. I installed new starter bolts and shims, my truck was one that (I think) didn't come from the factory with the rear bracket. I ordered one and installed as an insurance policy (I think it was from a '77 Corvette). If I'd had it in the first place I don't think I would have been in that position, and it was almost a whole lot worse.

 

[Ricko1966]

You HAVE to use new bolts when you use a pg260 (mini) starter in place of the 10mt they came with. If you do Not, you WILL damage (with time esp) something.

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I don't think he should change to a mini starter or anything other than the starter with the nose cone I put pictures up earlier. I've also given the measurements on the difference in bolt hole sizes in the starters.Again why I would use the starter I said. He has a 1 very compromised mounting hole which Is why I said stud it because a bolt might not be able to be tightened. So in a compromise situation I would rather have a tight incorrect fastener than a loose fastener. Lastly why I would use an early starter there will be 1 good mounting hole 1 compromised mounting and a third secure mounting point. For a total of 2.5 solid mounting points. Newer starter with no rear bracket you will 1 bolt that doesn't fit snug in the starter,1 bolt that is compromised and no third mount period for at best 1.5 good mounting points. You also lose the triangulation the third mount provides.

 

[Snoots]

Just my opinion but, with headers, I don't have to force the starter in or out, I have no more 'heat-soak', it's more quiet, I don't need that bracket at the tail (too short anyway)...blah, blah, blah.

 

[scrap--metal]

I'll only add that the secondary starter brace was not used in later years, I guess GM had decided the starters were light enough at that point. Early 80's maybe? Not sure.

Thank you for clarifying that. My '85 never had a secondary starter brace, and I don't ever remember seeing one on my '84 either. My '70's GM cars with 10MT starters never had them either.

Everyone else referencing the secondary brace started making me question myself.

 

[Ricko1966]

Just my opinion but, with headers, I don't have to force the starter in or out, I have no more 'heat-soak', it's more quiet, I don't need that bracket at the tail (too short anyway)...blah, blah, blah.

We are talking about O.P. who has 1 starter bolt hole broken out.

 

[idahovette]

It's an OPINION @Ricko1966 ..............you don't have them??????? ^^^^^^^^

 

[Ricko1966]

I think everyone has lost sight of the O.P.s problem which is he has 1 starter bolt hole broken out. This has morphed into what is everybody's favorite starter,when they have 2 bolt holes.