Starter bolt mount - not straight and not staggered? Huh?!!

[El Diablo]

Options...

Thanks Georgeb

That would seem another option. I have a Henrob Torch (aka Dillon aka DHC 2000) Great torch. Can weld Cast Iron, so I could simply build the ear up and drill/tap that? I would be wary of trying to weld dissimilar metals in this case AND align the stud accurately enough not to simply load the block slightly further in?

One of the great advantages of the Henrob (Oxy / Acet) is that won't make the material brittle the way a tig would. Should still be possible to drill and tap the built up material. Torch really excels at bodywork because of the self annealing properties of the weld. You can weld 18 gauge and bend it 'til your hearts content - no issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nV54n45EX8

Thanks for your input George!

 

[Georgeb]

To clarify by braze I mean to use flux coated brass filler rod. Like soldering but at a higher temperature with more strength in the end. Not weld where you melt the two metals together. I think in order to get a good bond building the ear up with weld you will still need that ear on the block to be almost cherry red hot to use a high nickle filler rod on it. I admit I am not a professonal welder. Just know enough to be dangerous.....

 

[Georgeb]

Perhaps a dumb idea- but I've heard of people using this to fix a broken block tab.

http://www.classicchevy.com/chevy-engine-starter-plate-kit-small-block-engine-to-turbohydra-matic-transmisison-1955-1957.html

You must be registered for see images

This adapter is for old small blocks that didn't have holes for the newer starters. After putting on this adapter you'd need to buy a '55 starter.

Maybe there is a better fix though...

Honestly, this is probably the better option.....

 

[MadOgre]

Originally Posted by MadOgre View Post
I would just look for another block and quit wasting your time on this one. You can find a rebuilt short block real cheap sometimes. I once bought a completely rebuilt never started short block for $100

set it aside for future strip down of internals and what not.
May not be as readily available in the Middle East.



That's absolutely correct!. If it was just a matter of grabbing a new block, I would think that would be easier. If I had to ship one from the US it would only be feasible if it was a new motor - like a crate motor from Jegs or similar. That may still be an option down the track.

For now, I've pulled the engine, gearbox and transfer case - no mean feat given it's bumping on 120 degrees F and there's no shade!!!

Plan A - Mount the block on a stand, rotate, drill and Tap for (5/16 hole, for 3/8-16 thread and a 3/8s step for the knurled shoulder of the mount bolt. I'll keep posting pics 'cause this seems to affect a lot of people.

Plan B - fab a bracket that supports the rotational force of starter against a mount on the one of the trans-block bolts - preventing the outside edge (passenger's side) of the starter motor trying to climb down and bind on the flexplate.

Plan C - Work on the chassis and body work while a new engine ships over from the States????


BTW - Those ATV/Bike lifts are bloody handy when you're pulling the Transfer Case, or pulling the engine/trans on your own!!! Worth buying one if you don't have one for sure!!

Oh wow I never noticed your location LOL I was wondering about the front pillars of the house haha but they build houses like that here too in some spots so I never noticed.

I would literally melt like an ice cream cone if I lived where you are LOL

 

[MadOgre]

either that or I would be seen wearing nothing but what the amazon natives wear

 

[El Diablo]

Yep it's hot!

yeah - hot here - and sandy - like fingerprinting dust! Literally, if you touch your car after you've washed it you come back and find your prints lit up by superfine sand! You could lift them easily

The bracket that uses the '55 starter? I've considered that, but still not entirely sure that's the way I want to go. Certainly another option if things screw up :-((

At this stage I'm planning to drill and tap the thread, then fit the Hi-Torque starter. I have to fit the 153 tooth flexplate for that to work. The aluminium (correct spelling mounting block on the starter motor is dual drilled for the two flex late sizes. If I use the smaller flexplate I can drill the inboard hole of the two outboard hole options. The most outboard hole would be the one 'normally' used if you were installing the 153 tooth. I plan to drill and tap for the mounting hole just inboard of that! I had to think this through - can be really embarrassing to get the wrong hole...... ????!!! Ah HEM.. !!! Moving on....

If I get a flexplate that's dual-drilled then I can use the original torque converter. What I would LIKE to do is warm the engine a little with a Moderate Cam, lifters, new valve train etc - so a higher stall converter is probably in my near future anyway? Options abound!

The other issue I have is a slightly busted Bell Housing (I guess that's like a 'slightly pregnant' girlfriend?) - so an Ultra Bell install should sort that - guess that'll be another thread - should be fun!!

Actually burnt a finger on a wrench that had been sitting in the sun last weekend! Crazy!!! Need gloves and rubber handles on EVERYTHING

Anyway, I'll post some pics....

STDBY

 

[El Diablo]

Using the replacement Dual-Drilled Starter motor

First Pic - Starter as it would bolt normally for a 168 tooth flexplate
Second - ..... for a 153 tooth flexplate
Third - shifting the outer bolt for a new drill and tap for a 153 tooth flexplate install.

White box simulates the edge of the block
Front of block is towards top of pics
Pad mounting 'ear' is 'invisible' due to the 'magic of photography' - if you were looking down through a 'glass' mounting 'ear', you would see the starter oriented as represented here, underslung on the pad.... (I know most know exactly what I'm talking about, but bear with me - other's may be trying to understand how to fix theirs, so KISS, eh?)

 

[El Diablo]

Damage to Bell Housing

Not uncommon apparently?

You can see that the dust makes life tricky. I will overhaul the TH350 and the NP203 whilst they're out - hopefully.... hmmm.... Youtube... and eBay....

 

[El Diablo]

Damage to Starter Pad (Ear)

More pics of the damage to the pad - easier to see from this angle...

 

[El Diablo]

Doh!!!

Now - Grade 8 bolts, 3/8-16 x 2.5" for the engine stand - engine mount....

One inch too short!!!!

Wife VERY rude!! Cheeky Wench!!!!

DOH

Another week for a delivery - or two weeks trying to find them here. Crap!!

 

[MadOgre]

That's a pretty smart fix you thought up there!

You have enough thread left that you could weld a stud in place use the threads to line it up and weld it on. Though I don't know how well the welding would turn out with a cast block and hardened bolt?

 

[El Diablo]

Welding a stud?

Yeah that's a good point - on both counts.

Maybe even, instead of a stud, a longer bolt - thinking it may be an option to grind a flat pad for the head of the bolt, then nest it into the thread that's left and weld it in place. That would give it support from the top that would supplement the support from the threads that are left.

Should be able to get a good weld, but the engineering would be good because, really, the weld is only to keep it in place laterally and nearly all the force would be vertical,

1. on the remaining threads,
2. the weld AND
3. the head of the bolt.

Easier to try the smaller flexplate and drill/tap for the starter first - but I think that may be a very good second option? Thanks MadOgre!!

 

[MadOgre]

Sure hope you get it working one way or another!

 

[El Diablo]

Sure...

If it all turns into a stripped, threaded mess of molten steel, I will buy a new GM Crate engine from JEGS and ship it here. Build it into what I want, knowing the engine is new! DHL does LCL (Less than Container Load - just pay for the space on the container you use - figuring around 500lbs and 1 cubic meter for the crate...) and it takes about three weeks apparently. Just trying to get quotes from them - not just for this possibility, but also because there will be other larger parts that just aren't feasible to travel via Air.

Most parts are almost double for me here by the time I sort and pay for freight. That's just the way it is, unfortunately (IIWII). On the upside, when it's done, there are very few Classic cars/trucks on the road around here. Certainly there won't be any like mine ) Gotta be happy with that! I'll be like a Swede driving a Caddy in Stockholm.... ???? Ka-chow Baby!!

 

[El Diablo]

Engine Stand Bolts...

OK, making some discoveries along the way and figure others may benefit.

Have to put the block on the stand. Ordered some Grade 8, 3/8" - 16 x 2.5" long bolts to mount to the engine stand as recommended by the manufacturer of the stand (recommendation was for size - not strength) - but they are a 1/4" too short to even sit proud of the stand mounts.

Just went into town to grab some longer ones - hopefully. Found some, but they only have Grade 5. Is this an issue?

Apparently not.

From what I have researched there is a school of thought that believes, no matter what, get the strongest bolts you can (Grade 8s anyway) because that's your 'baby' sitting on the stand. I totally understand that - but if we took that approach with, say, aircraft manufacture, the aircraft as we know it would never have got off the ground! Wilbur and Orville were push bike manufacturers, making frames in steel for their bikes, but frames in wood for their gliders.

So, would Grade 5s be up to task? Short answer - yes. Grade 5s have about 80% of the tensile strength of Grade 8s, and according to guys who have used '5's for over twenty years with zero issues; no probs.

Would a basic bolt without markings be ok then? Not so much!!!! they would run about 1/3 of the Grade 8 Strength.

Now don't get me wrong - if I had the Lowes and so-on that most of you have State-Side, just down the road, (shops with web-pages, catalogues, english speakers etc etc), I would probably go a and grab some 8's myself. I don't and I believe the Grade 5s should be more than adequate from what I've read.

Hope the research helps someone else out there in 'Chevy Land'