Small block starter question

[codfish]

So my starter quit today. Acted up every now and then, finally crapped out today.

Called parts stores and found one starter in town for an 84 k10 with a 350. Perfect.

Went to pick it up, and the one they had was twice the size of the one on my truck. Luckily I brought the old one with me.

Anyhow long story short, they were good enough to go thru their inventory of starters til they found a match. The guy did a reverse lookup of the part number of the new starter, and said it fits models from 98-2002(I think, mid 90s to early 2000s anyhow ).

I’ve yet to get the casting numbers from my block. The engine was there when I bought the truck.

So will a later model starter fit a first gen small block? Maybe it was done because of the headers??? No way I would’ve made the bigger starter fit without removing or loosening the headers.

Thanks
Codfish

 

[nvrenuf]

There’s a crazy amount of interchangeability with GM starters. That said, the one on your motor sounds like the later gear reduction type which is a popular swap because they are smaller and stronger.

 

[wanderinthru]

There’s a crazy amount of interchangeability with GM starters. That said, the one on your motor sounds like the later gear reduction type which is a popular swap because they are smaller and stronger.

I will second this.

 

[Turbo4whl]

What these guys said.... ^^^^

 

[Rusty Nail]

There’s a crazy amount of interchangeability with GM starters. That said, the one on your motor sounds like the later gear reduction type which is a popular swap because they are smaller and stronger.

Allegedly...


I believe you will find the terminal connections have likely been changed to match the later model "vortec" starter conversion, look out for that before you get started turning wrenches..
Probably why it "occasionally acted up" - some kid using butt connectors by chance?

Again. Heads up on them connections!

P. S.
(there is no horsepower found in a starter swap)

 

[Turbo4whl]

P. S.
(there is no horsepower found in a starter swap)

But you have less weight to move with a lighter starter. So your power to weight ratio has changed

 

[AuroraGirl]

So my starter quit today. Acted up every now and then, finally crapped out today.

Called parts stores and found one starter in town for an 84 k10 with a 350. Perfect.

Went to pick it up, and the one they had was twice the size of the one on my truck. Luckily I brought the old one with me.

Anyhow long story short, they were good enough to go thru their inventory of starters til they found a match. The guy did a reverse lookup of the part number of the new starter, and said it fits models from 98-2002(I think, mid 90s to early 2000s anyhow ).

I’ve yet to get the casting numbers from my block. The engine was there when I bought the truck.

So will a later model starter fit a first gen small block? Maybe it was done because of the headers??? No way I would’ve made the bigger starter fit without removing or loosening the headers.

Thanks
Codfish

There are 2 sizes of 10mt starter that originally came on the trucks of this vintage. The Pg260 starters came in the 90s. Both were made by Delco-Remy, but the PG260 uses different mounting bolts than a 10mt, and a 10mt, especially if high torque, should really use an additional starter-to-block brace to not break the block.

But keeping the pg260 is ideal, but since you have no idea if its done correctly, I Would order the bolts for a pg260 that match your engine and then go back in (since I assume youll fix the starter before you get the bolts in the mail) if you wait, thats fine

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Find your engines stamping behind the alternator on the block and find out if the block is a 1984 (or immediately similar year) and if it is
Then here are the three potential starters depending on your transmission type

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based on auto trans,
REMY
28370 is the original 10mt one from the 2nd page of the pdf. This is all accounting for you living in canada as well, since pn's sometimes are different. that means

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Oddly enough, a manual trans truck would have a different original starter but it has the same PG260 part number(96206 as listed above)

========
So whats this mean?
Confirm if your engine is a 1984 and you will then know exactly what starter is applicable, and you also can do the grunt work on making sure your bolts are proper.

 

[SirRobyn0]

The interchangeability on GM starters on GM built V8s, is about like the interchangeability of Chrysler starters on Chrysler built V8s, with nothing more complicated than possibly a terminal change.

This is the argument I always make.

With Chrysler there is a clear cut reason to upgrade to a 90's starter. The 70's and 80's starters (more so with the 70's) were ridiculously slow. And tended to slow more as they aged. They were often so slow that they'd create their own startablity issues. It's hard to get gas to light at very slow cranking speeds, and even harder to clear a floor. A little hot percolation might mean 10 seconds of cranking instead of what should a few seconds. So to upgrade a Chrysler to newer starter there are obvious benefits.

With GM those issues are non-existent. The old larger style GM starters were plenty reliable and turned the engine over at a reasonable rate. Really the only reason I can see to "upgrade" to the newer style starter is if your trying to clear headers. With the "upgrade" you'll unfortunately loose the unique old school traditional sounding GM starter. My vote, would be to go back to the original starter type listed for the truck. If the terminals for the starter have been messed you could put them back to factory or close to factory as well. Obviously JMO.

 

[AuroraGirl]

The interchangeability on GM starters on GM built V8s, is about like the interchangeability of Chrysler starters on Chrysler built V8s, with nothing more complicated than possibly a terminal change.

This is the argument I always make.

With Chrysler there is a clear cut reason to upgrade to a 90's starter. The 70's and 80's starters (more so with the 70's) were ridiculously slow. And tended to slow more as they aged. They were often so slow that they'd create their own startablity issues. It's hard to get gas to light at very slow cranking speeds, and even harder to clear a floor. A little hot percolation might mean 10 seconds of cranking instead of what should a few seconds. So to upgrade a Chrysler to newer starter there are obvious benefits.

With GM those issues are non-existent. The old larger style GM starters were plenty reliable and turned the engine over at a reasonable rate. Really the only reason I can see to "upgrade" to the newer style starter is if your trying to clear headers. With the "upgrade" you'll unfortunately loose the unique old school traditional sounding GM starter. My vote, would be to go back to the original starter type listed for the truck. If the terminals for the starter have been messed you could put them back to factory or close to factory as well. Obviously JMO.

Sadly if his bolts were never changed he would be stuck buying bolts regardless of which way he went, but if he did have the right bolts already, the pg260 would be the best(he also has headers, so maybe there was a fit concern)
But I agree on the speed thing, unless someone has mad compression I have found that cranking in -30 degrees F hasnt been all the bad for the 10mt in my 350

 

[codfish]

Thanks for the help. Same starter is in (the small one due to availability and header clearance). Bolts to be checked.

Cheers
Codfish

 

[Catbox]

We have pulled a few of those starters out of the junkyard.
They have since been installed on a 4.1L straight six, a 7.4L big block, and a 5.7L small block.
I don't really care about the sound it makes, it is super light compared to an older model.
And the gear reduction means it will turn them all over pretty simply.

 

[BRetty]

UPDATE: I found the number I was looking for in an article at crankshaftcoalition that was linked in another thread:

-- Torque the starter mounting bolts to 35 ft-lb

Starter motors

www.crankshaftcoalition.com

___________________________
Hi, I know this is a 6-month-old thread, but I'm suddenly installing a (rebuilt) Delco mini-starter on my 1981 350 SBC ... maybe somebody here will know:

what is the specified torque for the starter mounting bolts?

I can't seem to find this by searching and I don't have my PDF's of the Service Manuals handy. I'm gonna guess 20ft-lb, in the range of stuff like spark plugs and water pump bolted to the block.

Any more specific info will help, I'm going to check the SM when I get home and re-torque if needed.

Thanks,
BR

PS - the search terms "torque" and "starter" returns 1,000s of hits about "high torque mini starter". And the guy at Puma's Starters and Alternators had no clue what I was asking....