Rebuilt $350 long block questions

[Bextreme04]

My main concern was that they gave you a quote and then the final bill was substantially more. Without having seen the block its hard to say why it needed two sleeves. But ..... I have seen plenty of standard bore engines that were left sitting with water in a couple of cylinders and ended up either needing sleeves or a new block.

The $3200 final price is not all that bad. Its hard to build an engine and stand behind it for much less than that now days.

Bottom line is that they should have called you before doing anything above the original estimate.

That's where I'm at on it too. That's why I told him to return it and dispute. They cleaned, inspected, and gave him a quote based on that inspection and agreed upon work. Then they just magically had to do a bunch more work and charged him $1000 more for screwing up his motor without actually talking to him about it.... no thank you. I'm not sure how you "get carried away" and just bore a street block that far over and then keep "getting carried away" enough to sleeve two bores on a basic 350 block without talking to the customer, but it sounds an awful lot like incompetence or a scam to me. Its been quite a while since I've lived there and my memory isn't what it used to be but I thought it used to be illegal in California for them to not give you a written quote before work was done and also to charge you more than the agreed upon amount.

 

[Paladin]

I see a little bit of value in what they have done.

Spare me!! They gave you a Royal greaseless ******' and you can find value in that!!! Plus the fact ole boy don't want to do anything about correcting anything after being called out, so give it back to him with a barbwire wrapped condom!!!

 

[Dave M]

Should have walked away and left them stuck with it, especially if you hadn't handed over any money.

 

[Slybeanx]

Hey All,

I had a local machine shop come highly recommended and had them build out my long block. First the pricing went from $1800 ball park on the phone, to $2500 after it was dropped off and gone over for a quote to a final $3200 when I picked it up...I get it that things change but it almost doubled...

That being said, I took a closer look at the receipt and it said 2 cylinders needed to be sleeved and it they bored .060 over. The kicker to whole thing is that when I brought it in, they measured the bore right in front of me and said it was a STOCK BORE?! They also never said anything about sleeves or boring .060 over anytime I spoke with them on the phone or otherwise. I'm not sure how or why you would end up at .060 with 2 sleeves coming from an uncut block?

I tried to call them twice now with no answer to ask them if they messed up the billing or they really bored a stock block .060 over, installed 2 sleeves and went on down the road with a $3200 build. I think if they would have called me and said they were going to have to do that I would have picked up my stuff, paid their inspection fee, sold the 487X casting heads and bought a 290HP GM crate motor. Am I overreacting over here?!

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Insert unwarranted and unrequested advice from a 2L.

Did you agree to future and/ or any costs, or did you agree only from the 1800-2500 change?
If you never agreed to additional work then THEY shouldn't be charging you for performing additional work.

An easy solution would be to research your state laws on what an individual must do/ how they should act before performing further work. If your state requires consent and they must act in good faith then call them up, state you never agreed to the work and you wont be paying for the additional work done (or a refund).

You can also try a contract attorney, this is a rather simple breach of contract and shouldn't take much time to research and draft a letter. If you firmly believe you are in the right and they over charged you a significant amount that could be an option.

Saw your update post - they admit they didn't call you for further work.
At this point I would in a nice and calm approach state you wont be paying the difference between the quote and the final cost, as it was unapproved work.

 

[scenic760]

My main concern was that they gave you a quote and then the final bill was substantially more. Without having seen the block its hard to say why it needed two sleeves. But ..... I have seen plenty of standard bore engines that were left sitting with water in a couple of cylinders and ended up either needing sleeves or a new block.

The $3200 final price is not all that bad. Its hard to build an engine and stand behind it for much less than that now days.

Bottom line is that they should have called you before doing anything above the original estimate.

I guess I didn't think $3200 was all that bad either...like I mentioned earlier I thought they may have just had to replace some stuff with higher end parts...as far as why they were sleeved, nothing was mentioned about standing water/corrosion/etc he said they needed sleeves because they were so out of round... I'm thinking if they were so out of round that even a .060 bore wouldn't clean up, you probably should have known that before you bored it?

 

[scenic760]

Should have walked away and left them stuck with it, especially if you hadn't handed over any money.

I had given them a $1000 deposit when I told him to go forward...that was at the $2200 quote

 

[scenic760]

That's where I'm at on it too. That's why I told him to return it and dispute. They cleaned, inspected, and gave him a quote based on that inspection and agreed upon work. Then they just magically had to do a bunch more work and charged him $1000 more for screwing up his motor without actually talking to him about it.... no thank you. I'm not sure how you "get carried away" and just bore a street block that far over and then keep "getting carried away" enough to sleeve two bores on a basic 350 block without talking to the customer, but it sounds an awful lot like incompetence or a scam to me. Its been quite a while since I've lived there and my memory isn't what it used to be but I thought it used to be illegal in California for them to not give you a written quote before work was done and also to charge you more than the agreed upon amount.

Your probably correct that the Bureau of Automotive Repair in California requires a written repair estimate...they wrote me one at Pep Boys when I had the rear drums turned..

I was thinking about this when I went out to lunch today and ordered a hickory burger...if the waitress brought me back an ahi tuna sandwich with BBQ sauce and onion rings on it would I be OK with that? And then if I asked her about it she shrugged her shoulders and said "Oh yeah, we ran out of hamburger, I guess I should have let you know." and then gave me a bill for over 25% the cost of the burger... not really good business

 

[scenic760]

Insert unwarranted and unrequested advice from a 2L.

Did you agree to future and/ or any costs, or did you agree only from the 1800-2500 change?
If you never agreed to additional work then THEY shouldn't be charging you for performing additional work.

An easy solution would be to research your state laws on what an individual must do/ how they should act before performing further work. If your state requires consent and they must act in good faith then call them up, state you never agreed to the work and you wont be paying for the additional work done (or a refund).

You can also try a contract attorney, this is a rather simple breach of contract and shouldn't take much time to research and draft a letter. If you firmly believe you are in the right and they over charged you a significant amount that could be an option.

Saw your update post - they admit they didn't call you for further work.
At this point I would in a nice and calm approach state you wont be paying the difference between the quote and the final cost, as it was unapproved work.

The last time we spoke about it the conversation was stroker at $3600-$3800 vs 350 with upgraded cam at $2400-$2500... I told him do the 350 build.

To be honest, I really don't want a .060 over block with 2 sleeves in it regardless of how "fine" he thinks it is. As Bextreme04 said, you get so "caught up" that you do that much work to a block and not let THE CUSTOMER know is almost unbelievable as a story. It really does point to trying to take advantage of a hobby car builder in my eyes.

I agree that this is indeed a relatively simple breach HOWEVER they (most likely) ruined the core parts I brought them to rebuild. Fair and equitable would have them putting me back into the same situation as I was before dropped off my stuff. I'm not sure they are willing to do that so I have a feeling I'm going to be asked to negotiate a price after I dispute the charge.

 

[scenic760]

Spare me!! They gave you a Royal greaseless ******' and you can find value in that!!! Plus the fact ole boy don't want to do anything about correcting anything after being called out, so give it back to him with a barbwire wrapped condom!!!

This is the way I'm coming to feel about it as well! Loving the Texas humor!

 

[82sbshortbed]

You seem like a nice guy probably a bit too nice like I used to be. I had a contractor come out and quote me on removing my cement back porch and to pour a new one. 1600 OK great. Then I mentioned a cover for it. 2500 then, OK.

Got the old concrete out of there while I'm at work. Gave him 1k to start. Then it was always a little more here and there. Git up to 3k I give him. Figure 500 more ain't too bad to get him to finish.

Mind you it rained for a week and no work had been done but, not his fault. So I had a muddy mess with 2 dogs in the back. It was always fixing to pour the next day when I get home from work.

Then I get home from work and they had gotten the porch cover framed up and it look like a 10 year old built it. Warped 2x6's and beat up hurricane brackets.

I blew up on him. He cried about his lead guy quit and he had to come out here and do it himself. It was **** .told him to tear it down and replace it. He agreed to it. It was Saturday now and I'm home to supervise this dick and the concrete truck was gonna pour a 10am.

Long story short, he lied about the concrete truck coming because he spent the money I've given him. I fired him right there and almost kicked his ass. I didn't want to see his face again, or I would have punched it. For real.

So now I don't have anymore money, no concrete which is 500 for them to come pour. It's muddy with a leaking pos cover. So I charged 1400 in material from home depot and build a deck and new cover after ripped the old one down.

Got ****** big time and didn't like it. So from then on, I make sure that we are very clear on what going to be done and how much.

Since then I've had a shop swap my 305 and transmission to a 454 and th350 in my square. I supplied the 454 and th350 and just payed the labor. But, he called me to give me and options on transmission lines. He could bend new ones for 500 or go rubber for 200.

They also put a new clutch and rebuild the T56 in my 2000 camaro ss. Always calls when anything different comes up from what we discussed.

Sorry long for the post I got caught up in it. My point being they should always call when the original plan differs in any way. Caught up in it my ass.

 

[scenic760]

You seem like a nice guy probably a bit too nice like I used to be. I had a contractor come out and quote me on removing my cement back porch and to pour a new one. 1600 OK great. Then I mentioned a cover for it. 2500 then, OK.

Got the old concrete out of there while I'm at work. Gave him 1k to start. Then it was always a little more here and there. Git up to 3k I give him. Figure 500 more ain't too bad to get him to finish.

Mind you it rained for a week and no work had been done but, not his fault. So I had a muddy mess with 2 dogs in the back. It was always fixing to pour the next day when I get home from work.

Then I get home from work and they had gotten the porch cover framed up and it look like a 10 year old built it. Warped 2x6's and beat up hurricane brackets.

I blew up on him. He cried about his lead guy quit and he had to come out here and do it himself. It was **** .told him to tear it down and replace it. He agreed to it. It was Saturday now and I'm home to supervise this dick and the concrete truck was gonna pour a 10am.

Long story short, he lied about the concrete truck coming because he spent the money I've given him. I fired him right there and almost kicked his ass. I didn't want to see his face again, or I would have punched it. For real.

So now I don't have anymore money, no concrete which is 500 for them to come pour. It's muddy with a leaking pos cover. So I charged 1400 in material from home depot and build a deck and new cover after ripped the old one down.

Got ****** big time and didn't like it. So from then on, I make sure that we are very clear on what going to be done and how much.

Since then I've had a shop swap my 305 and transmission to a 454 and th350 in my square. I supplied the 454 and th350 and just payed the labor. But, he called me to give me and options on transmission lines. He could bend new ones for 500 or go rubber for 200.

They also put a new clutch and rebuild the T56 in my 2000 camaro ss. Always calls when anything different comes up from what we discussed.

Sorry long for the post I got caught up in it. My point being they should always call when the original plan differs in any way. Caught up in it my ass.

Appreciate it my man. ..and your right, I try to see both sides of things and your absolutely correct that people see that as a weakness and try to take advantage.

Funny you bring up the construction analogy because I used to be a project manager for a custom residential builder and I have built houses from those that were delayed because the church in Italy we were sourcing the roof tiles and fireplace from wasn't dismantled yet and the owner could care less about cost as long as we got THAT material, to a relatively prominent restaurant chain owner literally stood over my shoulder while I was negotiating the French limestone flooring with a sub down to pennies on the sq ft price. I know costs can get away from you real quick, in both construction and cars!

I really don't want to put the shaft to anyone, especially if the miscommunication is on my side.

However looking at the circumstances in totality on this, I was ratched up every step of the way on price. Right up to the point of a surprise $800 increase at pickup. I didn't really look too much into it at pickup because I actually trusted these fools. Reviewing the receipt uncovered some questionable services and when they got called out, it was attributed to 2 "out of round" cylinders in a block that, in my opinion, you should ******* know before you step anywhere near a boring machine with. Not only are you deviating DRASTICALLY from what we discussed in the initial scope of work, but also in price. A phone call at that point is mandatory. When you hang your shingle out to the public and call yourself a professional for hire, you better know what the **** your doing or suffer the consequences.

Yet another thought I had on this was that a competent machine shop would measure the bore before doing anything. At that point you would know the bores are out of round to the point needing 2 sleeves and you would sleeve those cylinders first and cut everything at .030 over? So even IF those 2 cylinders were jacked up, if you did it properly, you still wouldn't be .060 over getting "caught up" and all...so no matter what they ****** up my standard bore block

 

[Bennyt]

I think everyone of us has gotten the short end of the stick at some point on a build. I know with me most recently was with a paint job that wasn't as nice as I expected. I'm not saying this situation was ok by any means, but what I have learned however is the sooner you install it in your truck, drive it, smile and have fun, provided there are no issues, you'll quickly forget about the extra $1000 and can amortize it over the life of the motor to pennies a day.

A .060 over SBC 350 doesn't scare me, nor does a sleeved block. Both are proven to work fine in this application and I don't think any shop would offer any warranty at all if they thought otherwise.

When I worked at PAW as a teenager, we probably shipped 2-3 SBC's a day that were .060 used as race motors and yes you can't bore it again without fully sleeving all 8, which we also used to do as an upgrade as they are stronger, but all you really would be out is another core.

 

[scenic760]

I think everyone of us has gotten the short end of the stick at some point on a build. I know with me most recently was with a paint job that wasn't as nice as I expected. I'm not saying this situation was ok by any means, but what I have learned however is the sooner you install it in your truck, drive it, smile and have fun, provided there are no issues, you'll quickly forget about the extra $1000 and can amortize it over the life of the motor to pennies a day.

A .060 over SBC 350 doesn't scare me, nor does a sleeved block. Both are proven to work fine in this application and I don't think any shop would offer any warranty at all if they thought otherwise.

When I worked at PAW as a teenager, we probably shipped 2-3 SBC's a day that were .060 used as race motors and yes you can't bore it again without fully sleeving all 8, which we also used to do as an upgrade as they are stronger, but all you really would be out is another core.

I guess that is one way to look at it... and that is the perspective I had walking out paying $800 more than I previously agreed..

But what I REALLY don't like is not being given the information to make a decision especially when someone is going to spend my money. I already had the discussion with him about the stroker being more than I wanted to spend, we already had the discussion I went out and got a new vlock because I didn't want my motor built on a .060 over block and I got both...

Even giving them the benefit of the doubt that the block was indeed messed up before they touched it (which I completely doubt, btw..) had they done what they should have done as a professional machine shop is measure the bored in the very beginning. Had he called me and said your block needs to go .060 over and 2 sleeves and its gonna cost $xx over and above what we initially thought I would have done 1 of 2 things. Either said I will go find a new block or **** it, give me my stuff back (taking their word the block was bad) sold the 487X casting heads and bought a 4 bolt GM crate engine for the same price. That's my decision to make, not theirs

 

[idahovette]

So, what have you done, talked to them, refused the payment, what's going on now?? And what if any is their reply? I wouldn't screw with them any more!!

 

[BigDaddy72]

I would not trust their work or the engine.

To many red flags brother dispute the charge, or file small claims lawsuit. It cost $75.00

Judges hate shops that put the screws to the little guy. The judge will identify with your situation.

I sued a body shop over some shoddy bodywork and won. It’s really a simple process to file a small claims suit.

Small claims is quick and vicious.

Tell them what you want. (The machine shop) Remember it’s business, not personal your not trying to make friends your paying for a service per a verbal contract.

If you feel like you got ripped off. Say what needs to be said.