Metal prep for frame

[OverUnder725]

I had my frame blasted and realized after the fact I needed to do some work on it so I didn't coat it with anything. Now I'm ready to prime and paint. A few areas have surface rust from water splash marks, a one area that got something dripped on it. I wire wheeled all the spots off but I can still see the rust stain. My neighbor gave me some Por-15 metal prep to clean it up. I was thinking I would just do the whole frame with it as it has sat in the shop for a bit of time. Wondering if anyone knows if Por-15 metal prep (zinc phosphate) is only to be used with their coatings or is it ok to use with other products? Has anyone tried? I will be priming and painting with Endura which is epoxy urethane. Can't seem to find any info on either manufactures websites.

 

[Ricko1966]

Are you sure it's zinc phosphate,not phosphoric acid? I've been using phosphoric acid as a metal prep and shooting right over it. I still use a 3 step process and thought POR15 was copying an old 3 step process of water base degreaser ,phosphoric acid to kill the rust and a top coat to seal everything up. That was a lot is words to say if it's phosphoric acid,you do not have to use their top coat.
Just did some research real quick, I use ospho it turns out it is zinc and phosphoric acid, POR 15 according to thier msds is phosphoric acid and zinc. I shoot enamel right over it. Read up on ospho. Next I went and reread your post,I'd put ospho in a garden sprayer and spray the whole frame.

 

[Originalthor]

I just used the por15 metal prep on my frame. Yet to paint it though. It seemed to do its job. You can see were the zinc coating is. It has turned a goldy color. I don't plan on using the por 15 paint. That stuff is hard as a rock I find.

 

[Doppleganger]

The metal ready is zinc phosphate and works very well with POR 15. It does NOT get along with anything like epoxy-primer - the primer will peel over the zinc phosphate (was told this directly from Restomotive Labs ....i.e., makers of POR15).

I had my cab blasted and drenched it in zinc phosphate to keep it from flash rusting over the long winter. I since dug out more old seam sealer and found surface rust underneath, so am taking it back for a quick dust off blast in the Spring to remove the surface rust I found and the zinc phosphate. As soon as I get it home, its getting sanded, wiped down and epoxy primered. I told the blaster that if he didn't get it off the bottom I didn't care - would POR15 the very bottom only then 3M undercoat over it. Like that look anyways.

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[OverUnder725]

Are you sure it's zinc phosphate,not phosphoric acid? I've been using phosphoric acid as a metal prep and shooting right over it. I still use a 3 step process and thought POR15 was copying an old 3 step process of water base degreaser ,phosphoric acid to kill the rust and a top coat to seal everything up. That was a lot is words to say if it's phosphoric acid,you do not have to use their top coat.
Just did some research real quick, I use ospho it turns out it is zinc and phosphoric acid, POR 15 according to thier msds is phosphoric acid and zinc. I shoot enamel right over it. Read up on ospho. Next I went and reread your post,I'd put ospho in a garden sprayer and spray the whole frame.

Yes, just checked. It says it's zinc phosphate.

 

[OverUnder725]

zpl

The metal ready is zinc phosphate and works very well with POR 15. It does NOT get along with anything like epoxy-primer - the primer will peel over the zinc phosphate (was told this directly from Restomotive Labs ....i.e., makers of POR15).

I had my cab blasted and drenched it in zinc phosphate to keep it from flash rusting over the long winter. I since dug out more old seam sealer and found surface rust underneath, so am taking it back for a quick dust off blast in the Spring to remove the surface rust I found and the zinc phosphate. As soon as I get it home, its getting sanded, wiped down and epoxy primered. I told the blaster that if he didn't get it off the bottom I didn't care - would POR15 the very bottom only then 3M undercoat over it. Like that look anyways.

You must be registered for see images attach

The metal ready is zinc phosphate and works very well with POR 15. It does NOT get along with anything like epoxy-primer - the primer will peel over the zinc phosphate (was told this directly from Restomotive Labs ....i.e., makers of POR15).

I had my cab blasted and drenched it in zinc phosphate to keep it from flash rusting over the long winter. I since dug out more old seam sealer and found surface rust underneath, so am taking it back for a quick dust off blast in the Spring to remove the surface rust I found and the zinc phosphate. As soon as I get it home, its getting sanded, wiped down and epoxy primered. I told the blaster that if he didn't get it off the bottom I didn't care - would POR15 the very bottom only then 3M undercoat over it. Like that look anyways.

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Ok, good to know. I will have to look for something else to try get rid of the little bit of surface rust that remains. I could get it touched up by my blaster but I'm trying to avoid that solution.

I'm going to look into the phosphorous acid suggestion.

 

[OverUnder725]

So, did a little more digging on Endura's website and found a product they make called Neutralizer 20. It is phosphoric-acid.

"Endura Neutralizer 20 is a VOC compliant formula that meets or exceeds guidelines for VOC levels. Endura Neutralizer 20 is a diluted phosphoric-acid metal cleaner for all ferrous surfaces."

 

[Ricko1966]

The metal ready is zinc phosphate and works very well with POR 15. It does NOT get along with anything like epoxy-primer - the primer will peel over the zinc phosphate (was told this directly from Restomotive Labs ....i.e., makers of POR15).

I had my cab blasted and drenched it in zinc phosphate to keep it from flash rusting over the long winter. I since dug out more old seam sealer and found surface rust underneath, so am taking it back for a quick dust off blast in the Spring to remove the surface rust I found and the zinc phosphate. As soon as I get it home, its getting sanded, wiped down and epoxy primered. I told the blaster that if he didn't get it off the bottom I didn't care - would POR15 the very bottom only then 3M undercoat over it. Like that look anyways.

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You are right the epoxy primer will not get along,enamel,or enamel primer will go right on no problem. To remove your metal ready just rewet it with metal ready wipe it rinse it with clear water and it's ready for epoxy. Check with SPI. I bet they will tell you the same thing.Thats not being smart Alek I hope you would double check. I don't doubt myself but I'd hate to be wrong at your expense.

 

[Ricko1966]

Okay @OverUnder725 look up the msds for por15 metal ready. I haven't looked up ospho( what I use yet) I'm going to compare the msds.

 

[RanchWelder]

Subb'd

 

[Doppleganger]

You are right the epoxy primer will not get along,enamel,or enamel primer will go right on no problem. To remove your metal ready just rewet it with metal ready wipe it rinse it with clear water and it's ready for epoxy. Check with SPI. I bet they will tell you the same thing.Thats not being smart Alek I hope you would double check. I don't doubt myself but I'd hate to be wrong at your expense.

Oh it will come off with hot water - but I have some very light surface rust on seams where I dug the seam sealer out, so was going to have it blasted again anyways. For an extra $50 its quicker and more thorough than me farting with it. lol

 

[Ricko1966]

Hey I know this isn't the same but still might be worth reading regarding adhesion. I was reading when you posted going back to finish reading.http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/how-to-neutralize-ospho.3973/

 

[OverUnder725]

Here is the data on this particular product. $46.00 / gallon here in the great white North.

Safety data sheet info:

https://www.endurapaint.com/wp-content/uploads/SDS/English/FAD0062_SDS_NA_1.1.pdf

 

[Kurnacopia]

I had my frame blasted and realized after the fact I needed to do some work on it so I didn't coat it with anything. Now I'm ready to prime and paint. A few areas have surface rust from water splash marks, a one area that got something dripped on it. I wire wheeled all the spots off but I can still see the rust stain. My neighbor gave me some Por-15 metal prep to clean it up. I was thinking I would just do the whole frame with it as it has sat in the shop for a bit of time. Wondering if anyone knows if Por-15 metal prep (zinc phosphate) is only to be used with their coatings or is it ok to use with other products? Has anyone tried? I will be priming and painting with Endura which is epoxy urethane. Can't seem to find any info on either manufactures websites.

I've used por15 many times. The process they want to use is a bit awkward and time consuming. First their degreaser which they insist must be rinsed with water, then their zinc. Now the zinc needs to stay wet on the item being painted for 20 minutes! Try keeping a large part wet that long. You become a babysitter and cant do anything else. The paint they use goes on thin and can get lines in it if you aren't careful. It self levels which is good for flat items but not porous bumpy items like a break caliper. The paint is hard as all heck and cannot be taken off easily. I tried to remove the red caliper paint with acid and even that didn't get it. Lastly the caliper paint goes on thin and runny. It drips and is a pain in the butt to do. So, id suggest something else one can just paint on after the surface is cleaned. Unless you wish to do your frame in 2 foot sections...por15 is just a pain in the ass. Oh...it loves to bubble as well......

 

[Craig Nedrow]

What I have been using, Chassis Saver is great stiff, had it on the drive train a few years, and still shiny and new looking. Rust converter B-4 paint. Craig Hursh turned me on to the Dupli-Color, he did his frame. It is durable, easy to apply.