Learning as I go, but I'm stumped. Timing or an ignition issue?

[Swearbody]

The one thing that stood out there is "base timing of 8". You're saying I might not need to be at 0 degrees on the timing mark?

Youll need the timing mark to be at 0 to know you are on tdc. The ignition will happen before the cylinder reaches tdc..say 8deg...or 12...or whatever its set to. as rpm increases so does the timing advance. By 3000rpm your at 30+deg advanced.
Matt is telling you how to set the initial for first fire up
drop your dizzy in with it at 8deg btdc and you are close enough to get it to run at least. If its stock 8deg may be ok to run...i prefer 10-12 but have a non stock setup.
I drop my dizzy in at tdc and then set the initial by eye but have done this dozens of times.

the distributor will work regardless of its position in the engine as long as its set close. you position it according to the amount of room you have to turn it which in our cases is pointed at the driver side. a tooth or two off and you just turn the dizzy.

If on an engine stand you can theoretically drop the dizzy in pointed all kinds of off because you have the travel in the dizzy to make up for the off position.

Once the crank and cam are chained together they turn together. The distributor is there to retard or advance the spark to when its needed. if your ignition didnt happen before tdc you wouldnt burn the mixture fully before expelling it out the exhaust. meaning the combustion wouldnt be ideal...or at all.

 

[Matt69olds]

If you want to set the initial at 8, or 12, or whatever number you want, slowly rotate the crank with the number one cylinder on the compression stroke. Stop turning the crank with the timing mark reaches the desired number. If you overshot the Mark, don’t turn the crank back a little. The slack in the timing chain will screw up your desired setting. Turn the crank several inches before your desired setting, then turn it slowly in the normal direction. Once the timing mark is at the desired setting, rotate the distributor until the teeth line up, and tighten the hold down. Once you fire up the engine, you will find the timing will be within a degree or 2 of your desired setting. The slight variance is due to timing chain and cam/distributor gear backlash.

 

[Matt69olds]

And don’t feel bad about asking “dumb” questions. No question is dumb if you need answers. Keep in mind, everyone of us knuckle dragging grease monkeys was a beginner at one time, asking “dumb” questions.

Once you master this project, you can move on to more challenging things, which will invariably lead to more “dumb questions”.

 

[Rusty Nail]

In high school I had a buddy with this poster on the wall in his bedroom. After reading your post , this is what I thought of.

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That poster in my friend's room..

Seems to me, that your little truck was way more happy , moar happy-er, when it had the Holley on it, which of course, is the correct choice for 1983 K10s. Axe anybuddy.

My suggestion to you is to take that "new" 1406 off of it, sell it, take it back, whatever you do...put the damned Holley back on and dump the Carter P.D.Q!

Watch your problems disappear by taking the keys back from that dude. Your "brother" I guess. whatever.
I wouldn't let your brothers, cousins, aunts,uncles, OR girlfriends drive it either. Reckon it's tryna be peppy at 7,000 rpm. You got that kickass intake manifold see? People runnin edelbroke preformers dont have these troubles because their junk is all slow and won't rev that high.
With an edelbroke carb like that you got no hope.

It will be better with the 4150 you have. Blee.Dat!

Word up?

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Timing 180 off..... Lol remember someone here on the forum had theirs 180 off and managed to get it cranked and it exploded the mufflers!?!

I member when that kid blew up his mufflers lol but I thought YOU were the guy that liked his stribdibutors 180 out??

VBB knows how to make it run 180 off...

Whatever happened to that guy with the mufflers anyways?


Look OP, in my experience you are making too many changes at once and those are great intakes but you took the Holley off and everything started goin downhill.

 

[Turbo4whl]

@Rusty Nail Rusty, you are so rough sometimes. But still, I have to agree with you. The Dude's brother overrevved the engine with the Holley. Sure sounds like air and fuel were doin' their thing just fine!

Just like you said, don't give the truck to your brother. Fix the lifters and bolt the Holley back on.

 

[Rusty Nail]

nuff said!


/thread

 

[SirRobyn0]

I guess my question would be did it run at all when you took it apart? If no it might not be running due to damages you missed. If you have air, fuel, spark and the timing is even close it should fire. could the timing chain be jumped a tooth or more, did you look at that? Did you look to see what the rockers on #1 were doing when you were at TDC?

Once you get it sorted follow the last few posters advice, if it's your truck don't let your brother drive it. If it's his truck walk away tell him to figure it out. He must be an idiot it over rev an engine like this. It's a good thing he's not my brother because I would be intensely pissed at his stupidity and my anger would go on and on.

 

[Nicolai8775]

Whelp. My new friends. I regret to inform you that my muffler is no longer with us. I don't know what the **** I'm doing.

When you're done roasting me, I need to add that the Holley Carb was an older 1850-4. It leaked. Everywhere. I have a kit to rebuild it. Got the edelbrock cause I thought I was gonna get it going instead of blowing the muffler to pieces.

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[Nicolai8775]

I guess my question would be did it run at all when you took it apart? If no it might not be running due to damages you missed. If you have air, fuel, spark and the timing is even close it should fire. could the timing chain be jumped a tooth or more, did you look at that? Did you look to see what the rockers on #1 were doing when you were at TDC?

Once you get it sorted follow the last few posters advice, if it's your truck don't let your brother drive it. If it's his truck walk away tell him to figure it out. He must be an idiot it over rev an engine like this. It's a good thing he's not my brother because I would be intensely pissed at his stupidity and my anger would go on and on.

Oh damn I was mad no doubt. But it was kind of a mechanical issue. The old air intake had a plugged vacuum line that hung down right above the throttle... And well he pulled the throttle back enough to get it stuck on that vacuum line... We had just bought the damn thing. Didn't know it's quirks or whatever crazy crap the last 6 owners did to it

 

[Nicolai8775]

Oh damn I was mad no doubt. But it was kind of a mechanical issue. The old air intake had a plugged vacuum line that hung down right above the throttle... And well he pulled the throttle back enough to get it stuck on that vacuum line... We had just bought the damn thing. Didn't know it's quirks or whatever crazy crap the last 6 owners did to it

To add on to this, I still don't know it's quirks. Clearly. It's all coming apart so I can make it my own.

 

[Rusty Nail]

Can't make this stuff up.

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His mufflers blew up too?
Soon as dude said that...WHAM-O!



That's rich... Like your carburetor.

Hahaha can't stop roasting you new guy if you dont quit breaking parts!

Seriously though thanks for playing. Youve really got a great thread goin here.

Bonus points for pix!

Is this a great website OR WHAT ?

Keep your money in your pocket, we don't bill till its fixed.

*edit*
You're only blowin up mufflers because your jackin up the valve timing and you inadvertently dumped a bunch of gas down it AND THEN it backfired...it'sgood to know that muffler wasn't up to the task at hand.
Don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[Turbo4whl]

Whelp. My new friends.......

When you're done roasting me.....

I, for one, am not trying to roast you. Rusty is just being a little wordy, he did make a valid point. Rusty pokes at everybody, me included sometimes.

As far as the blown muffler, I'll even explain how that can happen. When the timing is so far off that the cylinders cannot fire, the raw un-burnt fuel gets pumped into the exhaust.

Now also, with the timing so far off the spark can happen when one of the exhaust valves are open. This becomes a fire path to the muffler. The muffler now loaded with fuel is ready to pop with a boom.

I posted early on, the problem, out of time. Other poster's have also given direction on what to to do.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Oh damn I was mad no doubt. But it was kind of a mechanical issue. The old air intake had a plugged vacuum line that hung down right above the throttle... And well he pulled the throttle back enough to get it stuck on that vacuum line... We had just bought the damn thing. Didn't know it's quirks or whatever crazy crap the last 6 owners did to it

Glad you said that, so it was an accident then, ok I'd forgive him then.

What about my other questions? about timing chain possibly being jumped, and did it run at all after the over reving?

 

[Rusty Nail]

He did a leakdown test kinda which was good cuz I was thinking bent valve or something akin to valve floating which dontcha reckon is what happened? Popped a rocker off or...
Obvs they floated and he tweaked his already tired stock springs. How exactly did you deduce the lifters needed replaced OP?


So it's pretty simple? Yes. Its an SBC. I imagine he's pulling a rocker stud or two and it aint never gonna adjust until it's repaired in a machine shop OR - one time this happened to me - I broke a valvespring at RPM tryna chirp 3rd.
Run like **** afterwards but it ran.

Kinda tough to diagnose either of those. BUT! IF you look hard enough and close enough for long enough - you can SEE a broken valvespring.

Speaking of, this thread needs moar picks.

Underhood pix. Let's have em. Dontcha wanna show off that fancy new carb? Ain't it....shiny?

You guys caught me eatin Hydroxycut after midnight that's all...anything else i'll turn into a Gremlin.

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I didn't bring any @Diet Pepsi to work..had to make do to get by..

What do you guys use at work to get or keep goin?

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If you replaced the lifters....im thinkin that's some of the trouble. Did you soak em in EARL or anything? Squeeze em to get the air out?
Ummm...Did you use assembly lube?
I'm gettin nervous.

They gots to get pumped up before you can adjust em. Did somebody say that? What kind of motor oil?

I also don't like this:

I need to replace the terminal on the end cause it falls out.

It needs an oil change. I use Valvoline 10-30 and a Delco 1218.

Believe me now and hear me later.

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[SirRobyn0]

He did a leakdown test kinda which was good cuz I was thinking bent valve or something akin to valve floating which dontcha reckon is what happened? Popped a rocket off or...
Obvs they floated and he tweaked his already tired stock springs. How exactly did you deduce the lifters needed replaced?


So it's pretty simple? I imagine he's pulling a rocker stud or two and it aint never gonna adjust until it's repaired in a machine shop OR - one time this happened to me - I broke a valvespring at RPM tryna chirp 3rd.
Run like **** afterwards but it ran.

Kinda tough to diagnose either of those. BUT! IF you look hard enough and close enough for long enough - you can SEE a broken valvespring.

Speaking of, this thread needs moar picks.

Underhood pix. Let's have em. Dontcha wanna show off that fancy new carb? Ain't it....shiny?

You guys caught me eatin Hydroxycut after midnight that's all...anything else i'll turn into a Gremlin.

You must be registered for see images attach

I didn't bring any @Diet Pepsi to work..had to make do to get by..

What do you guys use at work to get or keep goin?

You must be registered for see images attach

If you replaced the lifters....im thinkin that's some of the trouble. Did you soak em in EARL or anything? Squeeze em to get the air out?
Ummm...Did you use assembly lube?
I'm gettin nervous.

They gots to get pumped up before you can adjust em. Did somebody say that? What kind of motor oil?

I also don't like this:


It needs an oil change. I use Valvoline 10-30 and a Delco 1218.

Believe me now and hear me later.

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I agree with what your saying. The thing is that he is looking for help and advice but it doesn't seem like he wants to answer questions, or is just answering the ones he wants to.

I just re-read his method for TDC and it appears he watched the #1 valves, which is not the best method to begin with, but if he's got a timing chain that jumped a tooth, he would have no idea. He only took one cylinder head off so over on the other side there could be devastation. He says he has good compression on all cylinders but something is being missed. I'm also asking again if the engine ran at all after the over revving took place.

@Nicolai8775 would it be possible for you to take some video of you trying to start it. That could give us an added clue.

@Rusty Nail I like coffee. Not the drip kind but it will do in a pinch. In a can, a cup or express, I don't care the stronger the better. If it's cold out I'll take it hot, if it's warm out I'll take it iced.