Learning as I go, but I'm stumped. Timing or an ignition issue?

[Grit dog]

I agree with what your saying. The thing is that he is looking for help and advice but it doesn't seem like he wants to answer questions, or is just answering the ones he wants to.

I just re-read his method for TDC and it appears he watched the #1 valves, which is not the best method to begin with, but if he's got a timing chain that jumped a tooth, he would have no idea.

It may be distracting for the young man when his help thread is full of "tryna chirp 3rd and edelbrock sucks" interjections.

OP, if it appears timed right, IE #1 on dist = #1 on rotor = TDC, then it's 180 out if you blew up the muffler.

 

[Nicolai8775]

It may be distracting for the young man when his help thread is full of "tryna chirp 3rd and edelbrock sucks" interjections.

OP, if it appears timed right, IE #1 on dist = #1 on rotor = TDC, then it's 180 out if you blew up the muffler.

I'm not disagreeing, but can you tell me why? I took the distributor out completely. I set timing on the balancer to 8° before on the compression stroke, after the intake valve closed. I dropped my distributor in. And I wired it just like this video with the rotor right underneath 1 on the distributor in the diagram.

What am I doing wrong.

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And then I blew my muffler to kingdom come with a backfire that made ALL my neighbors come out and ask if someone got shot and if we were ok lol.

 

[Nicolai8775]

Sorry I've been busy with 12 hour days in my work week. Lots of questions I didn't mean to ignore.
The lifters we took out were physically ok on the outside. The hydraulic piece inside was kind of collapsed and tilted down, wouldn't reset right.
The new lifters, I think we replaced 3 or 4. We soaked them in oil overnight. These are hydraulic flat tappet lifters btw.

Yes it did run after this. It misfired badly. We actually were orking on this issue months ago and actually got it running long enough to whip it down the street quick. But then it hasn't started since.

 

[Rusty Nail]

and the veil is lifted!

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You're up! @PaulHarvey

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[Swearbody]

Has anyone considered a wiped cam yet once it does run? new lifters old cam = wiped lobes. If its not already it will be soon....Unless the internet is wrong again,LOL

 

[Nicolai8775]

Has anyone considered a wiped cam yet once it does run? new lifters old cam = wiped lobes. If its not already it will be soon....Unless the internet is wrong again,LOL

I was under the impression used or mismatched lifters in a used cam is bad. But you can get by with replacing them with new lifters? But, yeah, I read that in the internet so who knows.

 

[Rusty Nail]

If you take a lifter out of it's original bore , it MUST be replaced back as it came out, where it came from because you can SEE the well-established wear pattern.
Mixing them up is in fact, a recipe for disaster and will accelate wear faster than quick can get ready.

I wouldn't run a used hydraulic lifter for nothin! New? Not so bad but I think only replacing four of sixteen is a pretty terrible idea. I'm an "all or nothin" kind of guy....the other 12 will operate at a reduced function comparatively and maybe - just MAYBE that is an additional source of dilemma. They most certainly have a different installed height AND spring function, not to mention oiling ability.
Again, too many changes at once. You're in way over your head , Junior.
Prolly best to fetch ya the other 12 that match.

I would also begin to consider pulling that other head too. You used new head bolts installing the one...right?
It's a great opportunity to run a "shim" head gasket for better CR.
Better CR in your case = moar powa!

P.S. I just unwatched this thread.

 

[Swearbody]

I was under the impression used or mismatched lifters in a used cam is bad. But you can get by with replacing them with new lifters? But, yeah, I read that in the internet so who knows.

I really dont feel comfortable answering that for you. I was really trying to fish for answers myself. Ive never replaced just lifters since its cheaper to rebuild them. Only had two ever be suspect in 20 years but im not a engine builder by trade so my ratio is skewed.
I always refer to my internet knowledge when I am not yet confident in the answer. It is entirely possible that I have been victim to the purvey of the cam manufacturers or that the metal being used in new applications has advanced to the point of not having the wear issues. I know the oil has changed drastically to the point of not being ideal for flat tappet cams anymore so it wouldnt shock me that the materials being used today have changed as well.
See lots of my info has come by way of older gentlemen who may or may not be keeping up with the times. I started working on cars when you needed a service manual/haynes/chilton or an older "wiser" buddy to get by. It took years to develop the interwebs to the point its at today.

 

[Grit dog]

I'm not disagreeing, but can you tell me why? I took the distributor out completely. I set timing on the balancer to 8° before on the compression stroke, after the intake valve closed. I dropped my distributor in. And I wired it just like this video with the rotor right underneath 1 on the distributor in the diagram.



And then I blew my muffler to kingdom come with a backfire that made ALL my neighbors come out and ask if someone got shot and if we were ok lol.

I don't know what you did wrong, hell I could be wrong, but when I was about 17, and thought I knew my way around chevy engines pretty well, did a top end on my car, re-installed distributor, was 100% sure it was right, and may have exploded not 1 but 2 new mufflers.....
Out of ideas and no internet in the world, I rotated all the plug wires 180 and it fired right up. Pulled distributor, rotated it back and put the wires back in the right spot. 30 years later I'd still swear I had it TDC #1 compression stroke.

It literally takes 5 min to see if it's 180 out by swapping wires around on the distributor.

 

[Bextreme04]

There are two points in the cycle where both valves will be closed and the cylinder will be TDC. You might have just confused the intake and exhaust valve when watching it, or been rotating the engine in the wrong direction. You should be rotating the engine in the clockwise direction and the rotor should be pointing at #1 when the cylinder hits TDC after the intake valve closes and before the Exhaust valve opens. If you are rotating it counterclockwise and do it after intake closes, you will be 180 off. If you do it after exhaust closes and before intake opens, you will be 180 off.

Like others have said, you could have damage to valve springs or valves on the side you didn't remove. Or you could have skipped some teeth on the timing set. I would have definitely replaced the whole set of lifters and done a break-in procedure on them afterwards. You probably don't strictly need to, but I would have just for my own peace of mind. I'd also get a new timing set and replace it when I pulled it apart to check if I skipped a tooth. You might also want to put a dial indicator on each valve just to see if you have a wiped cam lobe.

 

[75Monza]

Another thing to think of that I've done before with a bad backfire is the crank timing sprocket keyway. On a stock cast crank with genuine 1406 backfire, the edge of the keyway shattered and allowed sprocket to spin about 40°. Was stuck on the side of the road 800+ miles from home and limited tools, was about bald from pulling my hair out trying to figure out what happened when I finally just borrowed my dad's truck, let him drive my Monza I was pulling and loaded damn truck on trailer. Eventually pulled the motor and soon as the cover was off was obvious what happened. Took that 1406 and plugged a gopher hole with it.
Honestly, with the point you are at, probably easier to just yard it to an engine stand and go through it or you are just band-aiding it till the next meltdown which at this point could be low oil pressure if the cam bearings got scrap from the lifters.

 

[Nicolai8775]

Ok so. I'm thinking for peace of mind I'm just going to have to save up for a top end kit with new heads. You should see the god awful headers on there. I'll get some pics later!

An LS swap might be cheaper though... I'm a total noob to 350s obviously, but I know my way around a 5.3. My brother and I did a cam swap, new lifters, better pushrods, new springs, rocker trunnions, timing chain, TBSS intake, all that, on my 2001 Tahoe.

 

[Bextreme04]

In no way will an LS swap be "cheaper" than fixing your current motor. There are definitely benefits to be had from an LS swap, but cheaper isn't one of them. I would highly recommend properly, and carefully, working your way through the engine to troubleshoot your actual issue. It seems like you have kind of just half assed-it and are making some assumptions here that might not be accurate. Test and verify that the motor is mechanically sound by physically checking the TDC, timing gears, and valve train components. Then properly initial set your valve lash. Then properly set your timing. Then you can try to start it while moving your distributor a little bit each way. Once it is started, then you can final set your timing and valve lash.

Backfires and other things can cause the harmonic balancer to rotate on the hub. You might be setting it per the balancer, and the balancer might not be lined up in the right spot anymore.

Make sure you don't have any vacuum leaks also. If the motor was running good while leaking fuel all over the place, you might have a bunch of vacuum leaks that were letting it run great with the leaky carb, but run like **** with a properly functioning carb.

Take nothing for granted, TEST AND VERIFY.

 

[Nicolai8775]

In no way will an LS swap be "cheaper" than fixing your current motor. There are definitely benefits to be had from an LS swap, but cheaper isn't one of them. I would highly recommend properly, and carefully, working your way through the engine to troubleshoot your actual issue. It seems like you have kind of just half assed-it and are making some assumptions here that might not be accurate. Test and verify that the motor is mechanically sound by physically checking the TDC, timing gears, and valve train components. Then properly initial set your valve lash. Then properly set your timing. Then you can try to start it while moving your distributor a little bit each way. Once it is started, then you can final set your timing and valve lash.

Backfires and other things can cause the harmonic balancer to rotate on the hub. You might be setting it per the balancer, and the balancer might not be lined up in the right spot anymore.

Make sure you don't have any vacuum leaks also. If the motor was running good while leaking fuel all over the place, you might have a bunch of vacuum leaks that were letting it run great with the leaky carb, but run like **** with a properly functioning carb.

Take nothing for granted, TEST AND VERIFY.

I'm just saying if I have to get a top end kit, with heads and all I'd be looking at $2000, or I could buy a junkyard 5.3, a flexplate match my muncie, and motor mounts. I have a spare pcm from my Tahoe. It could theoretically be done for cheap.

But I get what you're saying. Verify the issue, before I go spending a bunch of money.

 

[Nicolai8775]

Oops extra post