Keep Frying HEI Coils PLEASE HELP!

[K5ride]

No the typical GM HEI distributor gives about 20. Talking in general terms for a moment, most of the time it is the goal to hit somewhere in the ball park of 28 - 36 degrees of total timing. That's mechanical and initial timing with vac disconnected. Usually total timing is all in by 3K. So you'd want about 20 degrees of mechanical advance and then the initial base timing is what gets you where you or where the manufacture wants you to be. For example a 1985 350 may only call for 6 degrees of initial that puts you at a total of 26. Drop the accel unit in there and you are at only 16 total timing. That's going to be terrible for performance and gas mileage.

I'm still trying to find out more on my Accel 59107C without much luck. I'm going to contact Accel and see what I can find out. I looked at some other Accel distributor instructions and it appears they measure their mechanical advance in distributor rotation degrees instead of crankshaft degrees. The instructions for the 3400v dist. state the mechanical advance is set at 12 degrees distributor and then in parenthesis it says 24 degrees engine. The mechanical advance stop is adjustable also by moving the stop screw and changing the advance cam assembly orientation. It looks pretty easy from the diagram and there are very many options for total mechanical advance. My distributor is marketed as Easy Access Fully Adjustable Mechanical Advance. I hope it is as easy as it looks. I'll have to get my timing light out and play with it after I hear back from Accel.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Isn’t that going to be more emissions hard then, so the theory on the epa rating wouldn’t make sense?
Maybe since it’s a accel the lower advance is intended for a slightly more street capable high performance car with a advanced base timing? Race cars have welded weights and have separate starter switches than the ignition switch

like, someone who’s got a 103 octane monster who drives to their events

just a thought. I know some people will hinder one advance weight but allow the other to operate

I'm not really sure what the thought would be behind the lower mechanical advance. You could run a base timing of 20 degrees to get you to 30 total but at 20 degrees it's going to have issues turning over when warmed up. Certainly that wouldn't be a combination most of us would want for a street vehicle. And again I've only heard that the mechanical advances in these distributors are lacking I've not owned one or installed one.

I'm still trying to find out more on my Accel 59107C without much luck. I'm going to contact Accel and see what I can find out. I looked at some other Accel distributor instructions and it appears they measure their mechanical advance in distributor rotation degrees instead of crankshaft degrees. The instructions for the 3400v dist. state the mechanical advance is set at 12 degrees distributor and then in parenthesis it says 24 degrees engine. The mechanical advance stop is adjustable also by moving the stop screw and changing the advance cam assembly orientation. It looks pretty easy from the diagram and there are very many options for total mechanical advance. My distributor is marketed as Easy Access Fully Adjustable Mechanical Advance. I hope it is as easy as it looks. I'll have to get my timing light out and play with it after I hear back from Accel.

Interesting. It is the 59107 that I've seen the poor reviews on. Could it just be that the people complaining about the lack of advance simply haven't read their instructions ???? Could be.... I will definitely stay tuned to see what you discover....

 

[AuroraGirl]

I'm not really sure what the thought would be behind the lower mechanical advance. You could run a base timing of 20 degrees to get you to 30 total but at 20 degrees it's going to have issues turning over when warmed up. Certainly that wouldn't be a combination most of us would want for a street vehicle. And again I've only heard that the mechanical advances in these distributors are lacking I've not owned one or installed one.



Interesting. It is the 59107 that I've seen the poor reviews on. Could it just be that the people complaining about the lack of advance simply haven't read their instructions ???? Could be.... I will definitely stay tuned to see what you discover....

That’s why I mentioned separate ignition from starter engagement, you turn the engine over with a key and once it’s fully turning you press a button to turn on power

I have one of these boards from my uncles old race car. He races dirt with a Midwest modified and has a small block 2 barrel 107 or so octane leaded race gas(mixed to regular gas I gathered but I could be wrong) and welded it advance no vacuum either. The car would be hard to start with the timing like THAT but this is also a 400hp ish engine spending its time at WOT.

On guys who street a car but do a lot of immoral things like rock and roll and street racing, I mean have one weight tied in so the advance is there to be more normal driving but also be where they want it for power

because of that they often have the separate switch.

I gather that from some YouTube videos in the subject from people who do that.

ThTs a very big assumption, all I just said, because I’m not sure if t he accel distributor is meant for street or if it was meant for power

 

[K5ride]

I'm not really sure what the thought would be behind the lower mechanical advance. You could run a base timing of 20 degrees to get you to 30 total but at 20 degrees it's going to have issues turning over when warmed up. Certainly that wouldn't be a combination most of us would want for a street vehicle. And again I've only heard that the mechanical advances in these distributors are lacking I've not owned one or installed one.



Interesting. It is the 59107 that I've seen the poor reviews on. Could it just be that the people complaining about the lack of advance simply haven't read their instructions ???? Could be.... I will definitely stay tuned to see what you discover....

I finally got time to check the mechanical advance on my 59107C. It was at 22* mechanical advance. I was very relieved to see that much. I was concerned when the paperwork stated 11* but it did say "distributor" degrees. You have to double that for crankshaft degrees and it was right on the money. I'm currently only running 8* base timing so I might bump it up a hair. I may need to mess with my vacuum advance. It is still in the stock adjustment and is advancing 17*. I'm not sure how much is okay but I kinda remember 14*. I'll have to research it.

 

[SquareRoot]

63 replies on a coil thread? Lol. When did coils become rocket science?

 

[SirRobyn0]

I finally got time to check the mechanical advance on my 59107C. It was at 22* mechanical advance. I was very relieved to see that much. I was concerned when the paperwork stated 11* but it did say "distributor" degrees. You have to double that for crankshaft degrees and it was right on the money. I'm currently only running 8* base timing so I might bump it up a hair. I may need to mess with my vacuum advance. It is still in the stock adjustment and is advancing 17*. I'm not sure how much is okay but I kinda remember 14*. I'll have to research it.

Well I suppose those poor reviews could have been people who didn't pay attention to what their total timing is, and don't know the difference between distributor and crankshaft degrees. Oh, my that's just terrible to think about.

@K5ride About what RPM did you start to notice the mechanical advance starting to advance?

63 replies on a coil thread. Lol. When did could become rocket science?

Well, I'm sure you noticed it's been derailed into an interesting discussion on different distributors, and timing. Rocket science no, interesting well I almost always find discussing various parts manufactures interesting and getting lucky enough to hear what the accel distributor is doing right out of the box is fun. For me at least.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Well I suppose those poor reviews could have been people who didn't pay attention to what their total timing is, and don't know the difference between distributor and crankshaft degrees. Oh, my that's just terrible to think about.

@K5ride About what RPM did you start to notice the mechanical advance starting to advance?



Well, I'm sure you noticed it's been derailed into an interesting discussion on different distributors, and timing. Rocket science no, interesting well I almost always find discussing various parts manufactures interesting and getting lucky enough to hear what the accel distributor is doing right out of the box is fun. For me at least.

Well I can tell ya I am slightly disappointed as I have a single spark plug wire of accel fail on the silicone boot. It had blister and a split where it looks like it... arced out?? The plug looks fine and the metal nub is okay too so I have no idea what happened. But it still worked too.

I chock it up to the booot which maybe can be fixed by a replacement plug end. Not sure.

the rest of the wires are doing good. Well, they did. I am no longer gonna be able to drive that car.

 

[K5ride]

SirRobyn0 said: ↑
Well I suppose those poor reviews could have been people who didn't pay attention to what their total timing is, and don't know the difference between distributor and crankshaft degrees. Oh, my that's just terrible to think about.

@K5ride About what RPM did you start to notice the mechanical advance starting to advance?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It started advancing pretty low, about 1500 rpm. The first time I checked, I only went up to a little over 2500 rpm and the mechanical advance was only 18*. I had read that some HEI distributors don't achieve total mechanical advance until 3500 - 4000 rpm, so I went out and checked again. This time I watched the advance while increasing rpm until it stopped advancing then checked and it was at 22*. I'm not sure what the rpm was but it was pretty high. The claim of 3500 to 4000 may have been accurate.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Well I can tell ya I am slightly disappointed as I have a single spark plug wire of accel fail on the silicone boot. It had blister and a split where it looks like it... arced out?? The plug looks fine and the metal nub is okay too so I have no idea what happened. But it still worked too.

I chock it up to the booot which maybe can be fixed by a replacement plug end. Not sure.

the rest of the wires are doing good. Well, they did. I am no longer gonna be able to drive that car.

What happen with the car??? At work I've seen some failures with their plug wires, but no personal experience with their distributors.

SirRobyn0 said: ↑
Well I suppose those poor reviews could have been people who didn't pay attention to what their total timing is, and don't know the difference between distributor and crankshaft degrees. Oh, my that's just terrible to think about.

@K5ride About what RPM did you start to notice the mechanical advance starting to advance?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It started advancing pretty low, about 1500 rpm. The first time I checked, I only went up to a little over 2500 rpm and the mechanical advance was only 18*. I had read that some HEI distributors don't achieve total mechanical advance until 3500 - 4000 rpm, so I went out and checked again. This time I watched the advance while increasing rpm until it stopped advancing then checked and it was at 22*. I'm not sure what the rpm was but it was pretty high. The claim of 3500 to 4000 may have been accurate.

Thanks good info.

 

[AuroraGirl]

What happen with the car??? At work I've seen some failures with their plug wires, but no personal experience with their distributors.



Thanks good info.

Transmission has decided shifting is optional and neutral and park at no longer valid gear selections parking pawl will set in park but it otherwise moves in whatever gear the trans is in. The car won’t move in reverse and neutral is a forward gear same as d, 3, 2, 1.
Because of metallic debris and tsb for a 2001 4t65e I have determined it’s either debris has made the pcs non functional, solenoids are stuck, or the diffferential and sun gear has suffered damage as well as the band for reverse is likely broken. No matter the actual problem it involve splitting the case open and that means dropping or pulling it snd i told myself I wouldn’t be putting it back in if I pull it. Rust on the unibody In the rear is too severe.

im just getting another one so I have a parts car

 

[SirRobyn0]

Transmission has decided shifting is optional and neutral and park at no longer valid gear selections parking pawl will set in park but it otherwise moves in whatever gear the trans is in. The car won’t move in reverse and neutral is a forward gear same as d, 3, 2, 1.
Because of metallic debris and tsb for a 2001 4t65e I have determined it’s either debris has made the pcs non functional, solenoids are stuck, or the diffferential and sun gear has suffered damage as well as the band for reverse is likely broken. No matter the actual problem it involve splitting the case open and that means dropping or pulling it snd i told myself I wouldn’t be putting it back in if I pull it. Rust on the unibody In the rear is too severe.

im just getting another one so I have a parts car

Well that's a good reason!

 

[SirRobyn0]

double post

 

[Vbb199]

..... and getting lucky enough to hear what the accel distributor is doing right out of the box is fun. For me at least.

I have one on my 89 burb... electronic advance + aftermarket ignition box and coil + tune on PROM..... makes plenty o power... more than stock coil and dizzy did anyway


No problemo from the boxo

 

[AuroraGirl]

I have one on my 89 burb... electronic advance + aftermarket ignition box and coil + tune on PROM..... makes plenty o power... more than stock coil and dizzy did anyway


No problemo from the boxo

Other than heat management and maybe calibrations for emissions, shouldn’t a stock setup make the same “power” just when it’s applied is the difference? Which on a computer controlled system I suppose you can’t really do anything unless you tune. Did the distributor come before the tuned PROM?

 

[SirRobyn0]

I have one on my 89 burb... electronic advance + aftermarket ignition box and coil + tune on PROM..... makes plenty o power... more than stock coil and dizzy did anyway


No problemo from the boxo

Other than heat management and maybe calibrations for emissions, shouldn’t a stock setup make the same “power” just when it’s applied is the difference? Which on a computer controlled system I suppose you can’t really do anything unless you tune. Did the distributor come before the tuned PROM?

It's still interesting to hear err... Read. But anything where the computer handles ignition advance is a little different than mechanical / vac distributor. He can correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't know all the ins and outs of his equipment, but generally speaking in a scenario like that the computer is responsible for advance so I would suspect that the prom, or possibly the spark box would have a greater effect on timing and advance curve than the distributor.