k10 drag link steering question

[Swims350]

OK guys I've fought steering issues with this k10 ever since I've got it. It acted like it had alot of play in it before, I adjusted the gear box a lil bit, changed to a cavalier steering wheel, seemed to help a lil. I then changed power steering pumps, keep squalling, tightened belt good got better. Well I had alot more issues after the rc 6 inch, I installed the raised arm, I bought both drag link ends and adjuster sleeve new, set them same legnth as old, installed and had like no turning, so I adjusted it/lengthen and had good turning on stands. We never drove it more then the driveway from spot to spot, and it always seemed to be alot of steering wheel turning and not much tire turning. Well yesterday she hit the road again, and it's all over the place, you have to over steer inside and get under steer outside on the ground. What I mean is tons of steering wheels turns equals very little tires turning. Ok ow get this, on stands, I fie it up turn the wheels lock to lock, and the steering stops are almost touching the axle, when on the ground, lock to lock, they are 1/2 inch or more from hitting. I try adjusting the drag link and by that of course I mean from the pitman arm to the raised steering arm on the axle. It's like to get full turn on one side I need it adjusted as long as possible, but yet other side it has to be as short as possible. I cannot get full turn lock to lock on the axle with the weight of the truck on the tires, I removed my steering dampers to make sure it wasn't them. Now when I do adjust the drag link I am turning the wheel in the truck, engine on, until it stops, shut it off and lock the ign. When I adjust it either way, and try to fire and turn the other way, wheel is locked and key is very hard to pop over, and when it does wheel turns on it's own like 1/2 turn or more.

My frame was broke before, and fixed, and I put the plate on the frame and welded it up good along with their washers welded to the inside. I watched it and there was no flex at the frame or box. I also when I first got the truck had to tighten the pitman arm nut as moving the steering wheel you could watch it go up and down. It was the pitman arm, tightening it fixed that, wasn't a sector shaft movement.

How screwed am I? I'm thinking it's the gear box.??

I also had to change the lower steering column bearing.

 

[Swims350]

also the drag link is on an angle after the lift, I've been considering one of those step down style drag links like rc has or a dropped down pitman arm to make the drag link I have flat.

 

[Redfish]

With 6 inches of lift you definitely need the step down style Pitman Arm.

My advice is to get the front wheels both off the ground and pointing straight forward. Turn the steering wheel to full lock in one direction, counting the turns. Turn the wheel back to center, get the wheels pointing straight forward again. Now turn the wheel to full lock going the other way and count the turns to get from center to full lock in that direction. If they are the same you have pretty much done all you can do. If they are different, adjust that drag link accordingly until you get the same number of steering wheel turns from straight forward to full lock in either direction.

After that is done you can fine tune the drag link to make your steering wheel straight.

 

[Swims350]

that part and was fine up on stands I can get full lock to lock on the stops but on the ground she won't go stop to stop.

 

[Swims350]

With 6 inches of lift you definitely need the step down style link.

My advice is to get the front wheels both off the ground and pointing straight forward. Turn the steering wheel to full lock in one direction, counting the turns. Turn the wheel back to center, get the wheels pointing straight forward again. Now turn the wheel to full lock going the other way and count the turns to get from center to full lock in that direction. If they are the same you have pretty much done all you can do. If they are different, adjust that drag link accordingly until you get the same number of steering wheel turns from straight forward to full lock in either direction.

After that is done you can fine tune the drag link to make your steering wheel straight.

everyone tells me those drop down style drag links are junk or worthless but honestly I really think it needs it because it's on an angle now being flat factory style, ad I think it's binding.

I just did a test on the ground running and off, turning the steering wheel while watching to see how long it takes for the pitman arm to being to move, and it was only 1/4 turn of the steering wheel before it began to move, started at 9, with the tape on the wheel, turned right, was at 12 when it moved the pitman arm

 

[PrairieDrifter]

everyone tells me those drop down style drag links are junk or worthless but honestly I really think it needs it because it's on an angle now being flat factory style, ad I think it's binding.

I just did a test on the ground running and off, turning the steering wheel while watching to see how long it takes for the pitman arm to being to move, and it was only 1/4 turn of the steering wheel before it began to move, started at 9, with the tape on the wheel, turned right, was at 12 when it moved the pitman arm

Probably a mix of the box and drag link. There's quite a bit of force and some flex when going to full lock.

I don't recall you mentioning doing tie rod ends?

 

[Swims350]

Probably a mix of the box and drag link. There's quite a bit of force and some flex when going to full lock.

I don't recall you mentioning doing tie rod ends?

I haven't touched them on the long drag link from tire to tire as they have no signs of being bad, but the drag link ends from box to arm are new

 

[dvdswan]

I would do the ball joints before the steering gear. Ball joints would wear out long before the gear would IMO

 

[bucket]

Don't buy the drop drag link! Garbage!!! The ONLY thing they do is correct the angle on the joints themselves, they DON'T fix the overall angle on the drag link. They also must be removed to adjust them, you can't simply turn the sleeve to change the length.

 

[gmbellew]

either a raised steering arm or a drop pitman arm or both are needed to correct the drag link angle. like mentioned above, I've read bad things about the drop drag links.

 

[Redfish]

Don't buy the drop drag link! Garbage!!! The ONLY thing they do is correct the angle on the joints themselves, they DON'T fix the overall angle on the drag link. They also must be removed to adjust them, you can't simply turn the sleeve to change the length.

either a raised steering arm or a drop pitman arm or both are needed to correct the drag link angle. like mentioned above, I've read bad things about the drop drag links.

I haven't used them, I really should go back and edit my earlier post. What I wanted/meant to/should have said was, The Drag Link needs to be level. The drop Pitman arm is what I was thinking of. My truck doesn't have enough lift to need any of that.

I can positively say that it doesn't take much angle on that Drag Link to affect things. Keeping it level eliminates a lot of Bump Steer.

 

[Turbo4whl]

Chris, after reading your first post several times, what you said at the end is the major problem.

"How screwed am I? I'm thinking it's the gear box.??"

Yes it does sound like your steering box is worn out.

Yes you need to fix the drag link angle to match your lift.

What Andrew stated in this post is good, except for the last sentence. That is wrong.

With 6 inches of lift you definitely need the step down style Pitman Arm.

My advice is to get the front wheels both off the ground and pointing straight forward. Turn the steering wheel to full lock in one direction, counting the turns. Turn the wheel back to center, get the wheels pointing straight forward again. Now turn the wheel to full lock going the other way and count the turns to get from center to full lock in that direction. If they are the same you have pretty much done all you can do. If they are different, adjust that drag link accordingly until you get the same number of steering wheel turns from straight forward to full lock in either direction.

After that is done you can fine tune the drag link to make your steering wheel straight.

When the wheels are straight and the number of turns each way is the same, the steering box is centered. This is fixed to match, by adjusting the drag link.

Andrew then said if the steering wheel is not straight, adjust the drag link to straighten the steering wheel. This is wrong! You just centered the gear box, then you would be moving it off center.

The GM Saginaw steering gear is variable ratio. It needs to be centered when going straight.

@Redfish I'm sure you have read this other times on this forum, and also had mechanics say this is how you straighten the steering wheel, but it is wrong.

When the gear box is centered and the road wheels are straight ahead, if the steering wheel is crooked, you need to remove the steering wheel and put it on straight.

 

[PrairieDrifter]

Chris, after reading your first post several times, what you said at the end is the major problem.

"How screwed am I? I'm thinking it's the gear box.??"

Yes it does sound like your steering box is worn out.

Yes you need to fix the drag link angle to match your lift.

What Andrew stated in this post is good, except for the last sentence. That is wrong.


When the wheels are straight and the number of turns each way is the same, the steering box is centered. This is fixed to match, by adjusting the drag link.

Andrew then said if the steering wheel is not straight, adjust the drag link to straighten the steering wheel. This is wrong! You just centered the gear box, then you would be moving it off center.

The GM Saginaw steering gear is variable ratio. It needs to be centered when going straight.

@Redfish I'm sure you have read this other times on this forum, and also had mechanics say this is how you straighten the steering wheel, but it is wrong.

When the gear box is centered and the road wheels are straight ahead, if the steering wheel is crooked, you need to remove the steering wheel and put it on straight.

That seems to be a problem, since the steering wheels can only go on the column in one spot. If you still have the little plastic horn tower thing.

 

[Swims350]

the lift is new and from rough country it came with the raised arm for the axle but it's not tall enough and my last was the same, drag link is angled.

Thing is dropped drag link is 70 and a 2.5 I think drop pitman is 130.

As for ball joints, I don't see any play in them. I checked all that before the lift, and only fond driver's wheel bearing play, fixed that by tightening the spanner nut it was only finger tight.

Truck turned and handled as it should before the lift. It had play at first like too much floaty wheel and adjusting that gear box helped alot.

 

[Redfish]

@Turbo4whl I am sure you know more about this than I do, I always look to your posts as The Gospel. Can you tell me what is the downside/danger to using the drag link to straighten the steering wheel? If the tires point straight ahead and the lock to lock turns of the steering wheel are the same in either direction I do not understand how this can be wrong.

I fully acknowledge that the "I've always done it this way so it must be right!" mentality keeps us from learning. I am obligated to say that I used the drag link adjustment to straighten the steering wheel on Dad's '77 for the first time back in about '83 or '84. We had just replaced both ends of the drag link, carefully counted the threads and made a determined effort to putting them back exactly like what came off. The wheel was slightly off so I tweaked it. The truck rolled for another 10+years and 100,000+miles after that with no ill effects that I could see.

Of course it had 36 inch Buckshot Mudders and drove like crap anyway so...