k10 drag link steering question

[Swims350]

like I said guys biggest issue, steering wheel turns lock to lock, but wheels on ground do not when on ground, on stands they do

 

[PrairieDrifter]

like I said guys biggest issue, steering wheel turns lock to lock, but wheels on ground do not when on ground, on stands they do

Is it turning to lock or are you just maxing out the pump. Im pretty sure my spindles don't contact the stops.

 

[Turbo4whl]

@Redfish
Okay, in theory the truck is put together the steering wheel is installed straight and the gear box is centered. But with a used 40 plus year old truck, did it get disassembled for a rag joint? Did it need a turn signal switch? By Chris's own first post he stated he replaced the steering wheel.

The GM Saginaw variable ratio steering gear is marvel in engineering. So much so that you will find them on Fords, Mopars and AMCs, at least until the patent expired. If the gear is not centered when the road wheels are, when you turn the steering wheel to go, say right, nothing seems to happen because the gear box has to move back through center, then start to turn the road wheels. Opposite for the turn left, move the steering wheel a little left and the road wheels turn quicker because the steering gear ratio has already started to change.

@Turbo4whl I am sure you know more about this than I do, I always look to your posts as The Gospel. Can you tell me what is the downside/danger to using the drag link to straighten the steering wheel? If the tires point straight ahead and the lock to lock turns of the steering wheel are the same in either direction I do not understand how this can be wrong.

This is not wrong, but if you have everything centered, then turn the adjustment on the drag link to center the steering wheel, you will be moving the steering gear off center.

 

[bucket]

I know we've had this discussion in the past, so I won't get fully into it again. Especially since you are not wrong about centering the gearbox. BUT, there are some issues with your method. The first is that the steering wheel is only designed to be installed in one spot. Yes, you can fudge it in either direction a spline or maybe two, but doing that not only causes the cancel cam to operate differently between left turns and right turns, but also often adjusts the steering wheel more than what is needed. Many people want the steering wheel centered more exactly than what the splines on the shaft can provide.

Yes, not having the box adjusted at EXACT center will affect the the variable ratio between left and right turns, but not to a degree that can actually be detected. Please note, this last statement ONLY applies to a truck that has no frame damage, bent parts, incorrectly installed parts, etc. Obviously, excessive adjustment of the drag link can cause problems.

Lastly, not all trucks have a variable steering box, so it doesn't matter at all for those trucks.

 

[Swims350]

wheel was centered, shaft centered all of it. I will go yak it apart and re check it as well as ball joint and tre play.

 

[idahovette]

In past experience, I would almost bet money on the gear??

 

[bucket]

I just did a test on the ground running and off, turning the steering wheel while watching to see how long it takes for the pitman arm to being to move, and it was only 1/4 turn of the steering wheel before it began to move, started at 9, with the tape on the wheel, turned right, was at 12 when it moved the pitman arm

So basically, there is a quarter turn of play in the steering wheel before the pitman arm moves? That's kind of a lot, especially with larger tires that tend to wander, and even more so if the tow setting is adding to the wander.

 

[Swims350]

yep when she turned the wheel and I watched it with a tape mark at 9 o clock it's go to 12 for right, and to 6 for left before the pitman arm began to move and that's by feel with my hand on it.

I tore it apart, centered the wheel, reinstalled drag link, no help still won't turn fully.

I also noticed it has some play in the sector shaft with the drag link off, enough to when moving make it thump or clunk, maybe 16th or so just barely but you can move it and hear it. I also noticed yesterday that the pinion shaft or where the coulomn shaft hooks to the box, that has a bit of play as well when unhooked and can kinda hear a clunk or thud.

 

[Swims350]

just noticed something else, the gear box is getting good and warm on the end by the steering shaft just from running a minute and going side to side like once. The rest of the box isn't that warm and neither is the PS pump

I double checked ball joints and tre's no play

 

[77 K20]

I keep seeing posts all the time saying the drag link has to be level. This is only true on a stock height truck. You actually want to try and match the curve of the leaf spring. The stock springs were flat or a negative arch. So the drag link was flat.

It deals with how the axle moves when you hit a bump. With a lift spring pack you have an arch. Hitting a bump flattens out the spring pack- making it longer. The axle will move up and also back. When your drag link matches the spring pack angle the drag link will also "lengthen" as the axle moves up eliminating a lot of bump steer.
Since the front leaf spring is fixed/bolted to the frame at the front of the leaf pack the axle swings in an arc based on that front spring eye. You want the drag link to swing in an identical arc.

I learned this from a few discussions with Offroad Design when I got their custom soft leaf springs. The softer the springs and the more travel you have the bigger the need for angles to match.

 

[Swims350]

well new gear box is in, and works better wife said she drives alot better now, but still won't turn to full stop on the ground yet does in the air. She is a ton easier to steer, almost 1 finger now. I did notice while sitting it park rpms up and turning I can hear the pump whine, it's full, I bled the system engine off, cap off turning back on forth on stands until the level stopped dropping, then on ground running, same until level quit dropping, then a quick spin, seemed ok driving and when she had pulled into the driveway going left they were turned almost to the stop like 1/8 inch from it and that's perfect with me, but then I fire it up, turn it sitting still and it does the 1/2 to 3/4 inch thing away from the stops?

I've came to the conclusion I'm gonna swap pumps since this was 2wd pump, and send it.

 

[Mr Clean]

I don't think the pump cares if it's 2wd, or 4wd. I've never seen a difference in a pump. I have a drop down drag link, I don't understand why people say they are junk and not to use one. It's a bent piece of tubing that holds a tie rod at each end. If you want to try it 50.00 +the ride. I can take a pick if you want to see it. It also has good tie rods on it also.

 

[Swims350]

I don't think the pump cares if it's 2wd, or 4wd. I've never seen a difference in a pump. I have a drop down drag link, I don't understand why people say they are junk and not to use one. It's a bent piece of tubing that holds a tie rod at each end. If you want to try it 50.00 +the ride. I can take a pick if you want to see it. It also has good tie rods on it also.

I will for sure keep that in mind, our thought were that it's an 84 ps pump with no leaks, always lived on a 2wd with small tires, and being a 4x4 with big tires and push pull steering might be showing it's age or not enough psi now, going to replace soon ad if that doesn't completely fix it, drop drag link from you it is. I can use this pump back on the 84 c10. I was going to use my old 86 pump for core on a new one for the 86 k10