Holley 600 WTF moment---curious to know whats wrong

[eric 87]

Yes sir Eric, you are correct! Short story: I bought this holley brand new many moons back. It ran this same Olds 455 just fine when that 455 was stuffed into my 51 Ford F-1 (1/2 ton truck). I had to adjust it probably 3 different times back then, but it ran the truck for many years. Your truck will run just fine, don't make any decisions based on this thread for your holley carb. This thread is one of them you take with a grain of salt if you know what I mean!


Longer story: My wife and I got married in 2008, we had a "Hot Rod" kinda wedding that I was able to line up some sweet old rides for all my groomsmen from my fellow local Hot Rodders, my wife and I drove away from the wedding in the 51 Ford (SAME truck my parents drove away from their wedding with, this was my dads truck...except I could lay rubber with it now), anyhow after our wedding and having too much fun with it, the truck barely made it home because I hurt the transmission in it. The truck has not been on the road, nor ran since 2008.

So, this past year I rebuilt that 455 Olds, and I took that holley apart to clean it up, the bowls had some residual gas varnish in them, I cleaned all that out and cleaned all ports/orifices...etc. Used compressed air throughout the carb also, floats/needle/seat "seemed to work" and looked good, but as I found out when it was used here recently something was not right at all. I don't like that this holley had vacuum secondaries anyhow, so I asked my dad to build the Q-Jet for it.

Looking back had I done with this carb that I do with all my old snowmobiles it may have been ok. I usually run a little 110 octane through those old snowmobiles at year end and they can sit for many years, and the carbs are as clean as can be. I should have done that with this holley. Needless to say, this holley doesn't work right because of how I did not take care of it after not running the engine.

I do take many posts or comments to my questions with a grain of salt. And this will sound like I am being ungrateful but am not. When I asked questions about the TBI to carb swap I caught a bunch of "love" of TBI and what a dumb idea it was....before any advice was given. I have on other threads been given bad advice that even I spotted as being bad that would have caused issues. SO you have to sort of sift through answers you get.
I currently am trying to choose which is the best avenue for fuel system to the carb. Summit sent me the wrong regulator (no return line). So I ditched that idea. I would have simply sent it back had the right tank pump worked. THen I found the Prev owner rigged things when I took the tank selector valve cover off to see he had bypassed the valve and was only using the drivers tank as there was a connection made above the selector. The right tank had been recirculating from one side of valve back around to the back I suppose to the return for that right tank. Not sure why I guess the selector valve was bad or something and he rigged it.

I have an inline holley pump now in place. I can run a relay through the oil switch i guess as trigger to relay and have constant from the battery as well. THen again I was looking at just clipping the pump wires on each tank and run dual low pressure inline pumps and use the current harness but wire the relay either separate as I see diagrams for them. I am trying to understand the stock diagram off the ECM. There is a green white wire and tan white wire. IF I remove the Ecm completely I wonder which wires to tie together for the stock wiring to work with just the ECM removed. Was going to take a printed out diagram and see if I can find a wiring shop locally because I do not want to burn my truck to the ground just trying different combos.

All this to say....I have to either try local or be real careful what advice I take along with the snarky comments. I wasted about 700 on the TBI and it still was not right. Not only myself but a reputable shop. Now I am into this swap about 1000. I think I can get it going with not much more money. And I have to say part of this swap money is also straightening out the fuel system.

Cool though that you were able to use Dads truck for your wedding as well. Sounds like a great wedding with other rodders.

I want what I end up doing to look good and function well. Doesn't have to be stock. But since all these wires are in place if I can modify slightly and then pass on notes if I don't own the truck down the line in the future. Not planning on selling it though. Everything I do to it I want it to be good work and keep it tidy in the process. Eventually over time it may get a new harness so I can make it nice. I do not know how far back to go in years. One mechanic said if I want to just have AC to get something like a 78 pre electronics. Then maybe a circuit for the electric pump. I have a feeling this truck can get out of hand reaching into my pocket. I had hoped that money would be making my 69 firebird nicer although it really doesn't need anything other than a new stereo!

 

[OldBlueDually]

@eric 87 the computer stuff is beyond me, but TBI would be a good way to go, especially if you get the tank wiring issue figured out! This link below with the schematics I have used SOOOO much for this truck it is not even funny, including helping me to find the fuel tank selector wire which had me confused a bit until I saw this and found it had been cut on my frame rail for some reason.

Yeah, these things can turn into money pits very fast! I hope you get that tank issue figured out, and the TBI straightened away also. Maybe you have already been digging through these, but here are the schematics;

Electrical Schematics

Here are the schematics that I have for squares, just wanted to share them. http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/album.php?albumid=278 upload picture

www.gmsquarebody.com

 

[eric 87]

@eric 87 the computer stuff is beyond me, but TBI would be a good way to go, especially if you get the tank wiring issue figured out! This link below with the schematics I have used SOOOO much for this truck it is not even funny, including helping me to find the fuel tank selector wire which had me confused a bit until I saw this and found it had been cut on my frame rail for some reason.

Yeah, these things can turn into money pits very fast! I hope you get that tank issue figured out, and the TBI straightened away also. Maybe you have already been digging through these, but here are the schematics;

Electrical Schematics

Here are the schematics that I have for squares, just wanted to share them. http://www.gmsquarebody.com/forum/album.php?albumid=278 upload picture

www.gmsquarebody.com

TBI is now gone. Which is why I am having to redo wiring connections for fuel system and AC. However worst case scenario is I have to wire these components before hacking out all the computer wiring and the computer itself. I will say this TBI to carb swap has been a learning curve. Just getting back into working on vehicles at 60 having not really done much of it since I was mid 20's is sort of like taking a grinding wheel to rust. There was a lot of rust in the brain.
NOw for those that love TBI...I don't exactly hate them. Have had them over the years before. THis one and the associated wiring....I spent over 700 in parts to try to rectify it. The list or parts and labor I paid someone else to hook a laptop to and diagnose....well I cut bait and spent 1000 on TBI to carb swap parts from Summit. I had hopes of using the wiring harness. There is a green white wire showing in schematics going to fuel relay. And there is a tan white wire from ECM to pump signal or something. Then I thought I will just rewire the relay but still use the dash switch but run dual electric inline pumps inside frame rails. Keep the sending unit for the gauge. Delete the bad 6 way selector valve. The right tank pump was bad as well. Get a 3 way valve no return line needed since my new inline pump is 7 psi max. Good for carb no regulator either.
Lets just say I am having to spend a lot of time and going brain numb in front of this computer.
Still working on it now. I do not want the power to the left in tank pump coming on because the pressure is too high. Looking for the place to cut its tan wire which I had hoped to use for an inline pump. THen if need be I could put a pump on the right frame rail as well and use the gray wire to power it from that side. But I have to then figure out the gauge wiring which is where I am at right now. How can I keep the gauge wire working?
Thanks though. Mine is 87 GMC Sierra shortbed. I didn't want to do all this but I will do it right and make it nice if it kills me in the process.

 

[idahovette]

@eric 87 "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger".....don't know the wisdom in that saying, but you sound like the type of guy that WILL get this done!! I'm rootin' for ya'!!!!

 

[AuroraGirl]

@eric 87 "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger".....don't know the wisdom in that saying, but you sound like the type of guy that WILL get this done!! I'm rootin' for ya'!!!!

sometimes what doesnt kill you probably should have just killed you

 

[OldBlueDually]

TBI is now gone. Which is why I am having to redo wiring connections for fuel system and AC. However worst case scenario is I have to wire these components before hacking out all the computer wiring and the computer itself. I will say this TBI to carb swap has been a learning curve. Just getting back into working on vehicles at 60 having not really done much of it since I was mid 20's is sort of like taking a grinding wheel to rust. There was a lot of rust in the brain.
NOw for those that love TBI...I don't exactly hate them. Have had them over the years before. THis one and the associated wiring....I spent over 700 in parts to try to rectify it. The list or parts and labor I paid someone else to hook a laptop to and diagnose....well I cut bait and spent 1000 on TBI to carb swap parts from Summit. I had hopes of using the wiring harness. There is a green white wire showing in schematics going to fuel relay. And there is a tan white wire from ECM to pump signal or something. Then I thought I will just rewire the relay but still use the dash switch but run dual electric inline pumps inside frame rails. Keep the sending unit for the gauge. Delete the bad 6 way selector valve. The right tank pump was bad as well. Get a 3 way valve no return line needed since my new inline pump is 7 psi max. Good for carb no regulator either.
Lets just say I am having to spend a lot of time and going brain numb in front of this computer.
Still working on it now. I do not want the power to the left in tank pump coming on because the pressure is too high. Looking for the place to cut its tan wire which I had hoped to use for an inline pump. THen if need be I could put a pump on the right frame rail as well and use the gray wire to power it from that side. But I have to then figure out the gauge wiring which is where I am at right now. How can I keep the gauge wire working?
Thanks though. Mine is 87 GMC Sierra shortbed. I didn't want to do all this but I will do it right and make it nice if it kills me in the process.

Ok, I misread your post a bit there! Wondering why you were speaking of doing the TBI and the investment into it, and then talking about the Holley carb! To me, a carb is much easier (yeah right...look at the title of this thread!!! HA!) than a TBI, especially when you have to do some mods to make it work.

Isn't the tan wire for the tank selector itself? Or was that brown?.... I cannot remember now. I do have a great memory, it's just short

I hope you can get it figured out, unfortunately I am not of much help on something like this. Heck, I am having a hard enough time figuring out my own stuff!

 

[eric 87]

@eric 87 "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger".....don't know the wisdom in that saying, but you sound like the type of guy that WILL get this done!! I'm rootin' for ya'!!!!

Thanks for the....eulogy lol.

sometimes what doesnt kill you probably should have just killed you

OH how many times in my life that is true but someone was looking out for the idiot!

Ok, I misread your post a bit there! Wondering why you were speaking of doing the TBI and the investment into it, and then talking about the Holley carb! To me, a carb is much easier (yeah right...look at the title of this thread!!! HA!) than a TBI, especially when you have to do some mods to make it work.

Isn't the tan wire for the tank selector itself? Or was that brown?.... I cannot remember now. I do have a great memory, it's just short

I hope you can get it figured out, unfortunately I am not of much help on something like this. Heck, I am having a hard enough time figuring out my own stuff!

SO we are in this together. Only in that we are going to learn from my truck! The pump hot and sender wires split off the harness before they get to the big plug that connects to the tank selector/meter valve. HOWEVER each is a hot in its own way. I cut the hot to the pumps on each side where they splice off to the sending units. Cutting only the hot wire to the pump. However there is a pink wire that joins this harness coming from ignition so you can read fuel level with key in on position or something. IT is in between those two sending/gauge wires at the plug providing power to the micro switch I suppose inside that 6 way valve.
I am wondering even though I cut the hot to the pump if the common ground at the tank wouldn't carry hot to the pump through it's ground wire. Now it shouldn't run and if it did I would think it would be in reverse HOWEVER I think it shouldn't because I cut the circuit by cutting that hot wire. Hence why I am going to chance it.
This is where the comment above about not killing you makes you stronger but even more so Aurora's comment about it probably should have kill me on numerous occasions! We will find out after awhile since I got my new primitive 3 way valve with single wire. When energized it flips the valve but power off it reverts to the other tank. This will lead to a single low pressure electric pump to carb with no return line. I will leave the cannister vent line intact.
I will tell you there was no getting to those bolts for the old 6 way valve so I am happy the case is made of plastic. I took a flat pry bar and broke it off at the frame rail. With the nuts visible they still want to strip off instead of coming loose so they win I will leave it there for another day. THen I will come with dremel and cut off wheel. NOTHING is stopping me now!

If I decide to just scrap the entire wiring minus the gauge wiring. Does anyone know do I do all the relay stuff before the switch on the dash? Looking at the schematic that is how I read it but thought I would ask for verification.

Thanks for the support.