GM and Ford Getting in Bed together on transmissions.

[HotRodPC]

If this pans out, I'd expect nothing less than perfection out of it. What I like about it, when I get to learn this one, I'll be able to diagnose both Ford and GM transmissions and also Front and Rear wheel drive. I actually see this as a positive venture and hope it works out.


http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=37937

 

[77 K20]

Hopefully that will work out for them. I think it is a great idea- should save both companies a lot of money. I think Ford/GM are falling behind as far as transmissions compared to the european companies.

 

[bucket]

I don't like where this is going at all. It's 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, there's just too much to fail. Besides, if a passenger car or pickup can benefit from that many speeds, it just means they are deigning engines with a lousy powerband. 4 speeds including an overdrive works fine, 5 speeds just plain makes sense, and 6 speeds are cool if there's double overdrives. Beyond that, it's just a waste of engineering IMHO.

And at the shop we just changed one of those 6 speeds shown in the picture. It was expensive as hell for just a used one and the failed one only had 117K on it.

 

[Driver4r]

they already share the t-56 6spd..

 

[RetroC10Sport]

I don't like where this is going at all. It's 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, there's just too much to fail. Besides, if a passenger car or pickup can benefit from that many speeds, it just means they are deigning engines with a lousy powerband. 4 speeds including an overdrive works fine, 5 speeds just plain makes sense, and 6 speeds are cool if there's double overdrives. Beyond that, it's just a waste of engineering IMHO.

And at the shop we just changed one of those 6 speeds shown in the picture. It was expensive as hell for just a used one and the failed one only had 117K on it.

I was thinking the same.

 

[foamypirate]

I don't like where this is going at all. It's 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, there's just too much to fail. Besides, if a passenger car or pickup can benefit from that many speeds, it just means they are deigning engines with a lousy powerband. 4 speeds including an overdrive works fine, 5 speeds just plain makes sense, and 6 speeds are cool if there's double overdrives. Beyond that, it's just a waste of engineering IMHO.

And at the shop we just changed one of those 6 speeds shown in the picture. It was expensive as hell for just a used one and the failed one only had 117K on it.

I disagree. I fail to see how a transmission that keeps the engine in it's most efficient powerband is a bad thing. I'd say most engines these days have WAAAY better powerbands than old school engines. Using DI, variable valve timing, etc, keeps the torque curve nice and flat from idle to redline. You can't really get that in an old school motor. You have to pick your powerband, or make significant compromises.

 

[bucket]

they already share the t-56 6spd..

Yeah, but GM and Ford did not design it. Or the old T5 for that matter.Oh, and Chrysler used the T56 too.

I disagree. I fail to see how a transmission that keeps the engine in it's most efficient powerband is a bad thing. I'd say most engines these days have WAAAY better powerbands than old school engines. Using DI, variable valve timing, etc, keeps the torque curve nice and flat from idle to redline. You can't really get that in an old school motor. You have to pick your powerband, or make significant compromises.

I don't know about the vehicles you have owned, but most I've owned had a very nice and flat powerband. If the trans didn't have the *perfect* gear for what the engine wanted to do, the engine still performed well (for what it was).

I personally feel that the powerbands of a lot of modern engines suck. They trick you into thinking they have better low end power than they actually do, mostly with the help of electronic throttle bodies. But when it comes down to it, they only perform well in one area, usually it's up high so they can claim more power than the other brand. An engine designed for useable power rather than peak power doesn't need a bunch of gears.

 

[cedens]

Ford wants to marry the Powerstroke to the Allison Transmission!

I can see a plus to that, except one thing.....Ford wont be allowed to change the hell out of it from year to year like they used to with their trucks

 

[HotRodPC]

they already share the t-56 6spd..

They may share it, but that's not a Ford or GM transmission. It's a Tremec. Just like GM and Dodge both use the NV4500 which is made by New Venture, just like Chevy, Dodge and Ford also use Dana Rear Axles made Dana/Spicer Corporation.

This is to be a joint venture design, engineered and built by both Ford and GM.

 

[HotRodPC]

Yeah, but GM and Ford did not design it. Or the old T5 for that matter.Oh, and Chrysler used the T56 too.



I don't know about the vehicles you have owned, but most I've owned had a very nice and flat powerband. If the trans didn't have the *perfect* gear for what the engine wanted to do, the engine still performed well (for what it was).

I personally feel that the powerbands of a lot of modern engines suck. They trick you into thinking they have better low end power than they actually do, mostly with the help of electronic throttle bodies. But when it comes down to it, they only perform well in one area, usually it's up high so they can claim more power than the other brand. An engine designed for useable power rather than peak power doesn't need a bunch of gears.

I agree with that part to a certain degree, but what I like about it, is the joint venture between the 2 companies. As far as speeds, 7 wouldn't be to bad. You can go with a deeper low, like 3.50:1 and do away with the wide gap between 2nd and 3rd like the 700r4 has, and then have 2 OD's, one being a .80 then a .60. Doing that you can differential gear everything at 4.10 or 4.56 and improve city mpg drastically and still be able to reasonably cruise 75mph with a small 26in passenger car tire.

 

[dhamp]

As much as I loathe having a CVT, I'm thinking I'd rather have that instead of a 10-spd auto. To do all of that and still make it compact means 1) lighter duty parts 2)more crap that can break 3) higher repair bills. Whatever can't be done in 5 or 6 gears doesn't need to be done in a normal vehicle.

 

[bucket]

Whatever can't be done in 5 or 6 gears doesn't need to be done in a normal vehicle.

Well put!

 

[GTME94]

GM and Ford already shared design on Front Wheel Drive 6 Speed transmission. Ford calls it a 6F35, not sure what GM calls it.