Finally got a running 65 C10

[DoubleDingo]

I don't understand this logic? They were used in cars like Impalas with highway gears that were probably heavier than short, 2wd C10's. How would it be any different than taking off in 1st with the stock 3 speed, or 2nd (1st after granny gear) in the 420?

There were also different ratios used in the Saginaw 4-speed. They can be identified by the number of grooves on the input shaft.

With the sm420 you're using 2nd gear as 1st for 99.99% of all takeoffs.

The Saginaw 4 speeds, and 3 speeds do have desirable 1st gear options, but I have never seen any other than the zero groove 2.84 1st gear. That 1st gear ratio, even with 4.57 rear end ratio is a pain upon take off sometimes.

Every vehicle that came with the 3 speed or 4 speed from the factory, all had engine torque, tire size and axle ratio accounted for.

With minimal to almost zero Saginaw 1 groove(2.54), 2 groove(3.11) or 3 groove(3.50) 3-4 speed 1st gear transmissions out there, that leaves the 0 groove with 2.85 1st gear transmission, and it's not nearly as good as the sm420 with its 3.60 2nd gear used as 1st gear.

 

[bucket]

With the sm420 you're using 2nd gear as 1st for 99.99% of all takeoffs.

The Saginaw 4 speeds, and 3 speeds do have desirable 1st gear options, but I have never seen any other than the zero groove 2.84 1st gear. That 1st gear ratio, even with 4.57 rear end ratio is a pain upon take off sometimes.

Every vehicle that came with the 3 speed or 4 speed from the factory, all had engine torque, tire size and axle ratio accounted for.

With minimal to almost zero Saginaw 1 groove(2.54), 2 groove(3.11) or 3 groove(3.50) 3-4 speed 1st gear transmissions out there, that leaves the 0 groove with 2.85 1st gear transmission, and it's not nearly as good as the sm420 with its 3.60 2nd gear used as 1st gear.

I didn't realize that 2nd gear was that steep. However, that is a large rpm drop between gears, compared to a traditional 4 speed. A traditional car type 4 speed can also be shifted in a much more spirited manor.

 

[DoubleDingo]

I didn't realize that 2nd gear was that steep. However, that is a large rpm drop between gears, compared to a traditional 4 speed. A traditional car type 4 speed can also be shifted in a much more spirited manor.

I guess I never knew any better, as I shifted my sm420 just fine in many different types conditions and scenarios, that I never knew the difference between the Saginaw 4 speed in the 56, or the sm420 in Mean Green. I was much younger and dumber back then, and also drove a wide array of vehicles with varying granny-geared 4 speeds, automatics, column shift, etc. If I could do it all over again give me a 350/sm420/3.54

 

[idahovette]

All I gotta say Shane @DoubleDingo is you gotta be a MAGICIAN if you can shift a 420 like you can an M20 or a Saginaw!!!!!!!

 

[DoubleDingo]

All I gotta say Shane @DoubleDingo is you gotta be a MAGICIAN if you can shift a 420 like you can an M20 or a Saginaw!!!!!!!

I guess it may have been the addition of STP oil treatment that made my sm420s shift so good? Not saying they were like a short throw shifter or even a regular throw shifter 4 speed, but they shifted just fine, even the sm465s I shifted were smooth. When I hear people say they have trouble shifting them I always wonder why.

 

[1low4x4]

Enjoying all the Transmission talk. I’m learning.

On the topic of headers. This truck has a set of rusty old long tube headers that I’m thinking about painting with the POR 15 high temperature paint. I did that with my white square body and they came out good and lasted long. But I’m also wondering about wrapping them with the heat shield stuff? Other than being ugly, and holding moisture, any downsides? Trying to maybe get rid of some of the heat in the cab.

Although, I did remember there were kick panel vents, and once I opened them, man, what a difference they made in the heat in the cab.

Cam kit comes in today, but all my gaskets and stuff won’t be in until Monday. Still need to go find a three jaw puller for the balancer.

 

[DoubleDingo]

Enjoying all the Transmission talk. I’m learning.

On the topic of headers. This truck has a set of rusty old long tube headers that I’m thinking about painting with the POR 15 high temperature paint. I did that with my white square body and they came out good and lasted long. But I’m also wondering about wrapping them with the heat shield stuff? Other than being ugly, and holding moisture, any downsides? Trying to maybe get rid of some of the heat in the cab.

Although, I did remember there were kick panel vents, and once I opened them, man, what a difference they made in the heat in the cab.

Cam kit comes in today, but all my gaskets and stuff won’t be in until Monday. Still need to go find a three jaw puller for the balancer.

Not sure how much you plan to do to the truck, but some insulation and carpet will knock down some of that heat transfer through the firewall and floorboards. Will make it a little quieter as well.

Maybe rent a harmonic balancer tool from a local auto parts store? Should everything you need in the kit to remove and install the dampener.

I don't have anything in regards to the headers, I only run stock manifolds on my rigs.

 

[1low4x4]

Not sure how much you plan to do to the truck, but some insulation and carpet will knock down some of that heat transfer through the firewall and floorboards. Will make it a little quieter as well.

Maybe rent a harmonic balancer tool from a local auto parts store? Should everything you need in the kit to remove and install the dampener.

I don't have anything in regards to the headers, I only run stock manifolds on my rigs.

Yeah I need to get to the parts house soon

 

[bucket]

I guess it may have been the addition of STP oil treatment that made my sm420s shift so good? Not saying they were like a short throw shifter or even a regular throw shifter 4 speed, but they shifted just fine, even the sm465s I shifted were smooth. When I hear people say they have trouble shifting them I always wonder why.

It's not that they are harder to shift, it's just that they cannot be shifted as fast. That's a lot of mass to get shuffled around in there. There ain't no bangin gears and chirping rubber.

 

[DoubleDingo]

......There ain't no bangin gears and chirping rubber.

Not with that attitude...lol..

Kidding aside, I do agree, it's not a gear banging tranny, it's a workhorse tranny, but it can be shifted smoothly and semi-quickly, especially with a decent clutch setup and adjustment.

 

[bucket]

Not with that attitude...lol..

Kidding aside, I do agree, it's not a gear banging tranny, it's a workhorse tranny, but it can be shifted smoothly and semi-quickly, especially with a decent clutch setup and adjustment.

Yep, I 100% agree with that statement.

 

[1low4x4]

What about the trusty 700r4?

 

[bucket]

What about the trusty 700r4?

That would be fine with a quality rebuild, done by someone that actually knows what they are doing. Otherwise, the reliability would be a shot in the dark.