ESC need someone that knows more about ESC system than I do

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

82sbshortbed

Fuckemall!!
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Posts
15,949
Reaction score
53,706
Location
SE Texas
First Name
Doug
Truck Year
1982, 1984
Truck Model
1500 shortbed, 1500 longbed
Engine Size
454, 305
Maybe this will help

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
I WIN I WIN!!!!
Okay I didn't win 82sbshortbed won. Anyway on a different thread dealing with ESC some people get away with it and think things are fine others don't have the same experience. Bucket asked why, SirRobyn0 gave his 2 cents,and I gave mine,but I think 1 thing we all missed is 1 hei isn't all HEIs dozens if not hundreds of combinations,eccentric,weights springs amount of centrifugal in the distributor,amount of vacuum in the can and what what hg. the can drops in and out. So maybe at least part of the difference is exactly which HEI you install.
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Okay I didn't win 82sbshortbed won. Anyway on a different thread dealing with ESC some people get away with it and think things are fine others don't have the same experience. Bucket asked why, SirRobyn0 gave his 2 cents,and I gave mine,but I think 1 thing we all missed is 1 hei isn't all HEIs dozens if not hundreds of combinations,eccentric,weights springs amount of centrifugal in the distributor,amount of vacuum in the can and what what hg. the can drops in and out. So maybe at least part of the difference is exactly which HEI you install.
Right and that's a really good point about all the combinations and I'm sure plays a roll in how an ESC bypass works out.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Well sir inop esc has finally irritated me to start putting it back.Since you just did this I'd appreciate some numbers from you. If you have them. Do you know how much centrifical is in an esc distributor and when it's all in? What vacuum advance can did you end up with and total degrees of vacuum advance added. Thanks
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
@ bucket I may have found the reason you and some others got away with no ESC . If you used an msd streetfire they have a really lazy timing curve. Spec is 22* at 4000 rpm. I actually may try building a stock hei to street fire specs. I just like Robyn am sick of how my truck runs with out ESC. Thanks for the pointer.
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Well sir inop esc has finally irritated me to start putting it back.Since you just did this I'd appreciate some numbers from you. If you have them. Do you know how much centrifical is in an esc distributor and when it's all in? What vacuum advance can did you end up with and total degrees of vacuum advance added. Thanks
I don't know how much help I'm going to be but I will give you what I have. As I understand it the stock vacuum advance can pulls 20 inches. I never measured mine when it was installed. Against you advice I'm running a Pertronix D9006 Flame-Thrower Adjustable Vacuum Advance Canister. For some unknown reason I have to limit my vac advance to about 16 degrees. But I'm running an aftermarket distributor a Ritchporter part # GM14, also sold by Orielly's under the WIA brand. My original distributor was SHOT, though I still have it. Centrifugal advance comes in super early I think it's pretty much all in by 1,500RPM, which might be why I can't run the full vac advance. That's pretty much what I can tell you. I no longer have a working distributor machine, so anytime I fool around it has to be on the car and I don't know the full #'s I've never really checked. What I do know is power is back and ping is rare, so this is working for me.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Well the 1500 rpm number was the one I was looking for and how many degrees was added total. I can get these numbers if you don't have them. It's just a matter of getting out the timing light and checking. My plan is to try to recurve a stock esc distributor. As a matter of fact an exact number like 21* isn't necessary for attempt 1 just close as long as it's in the vicinity of 20*
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Well the 1500 rpm number was the one I was looking for and how many degrees was added total. I can get these numbers if you don't have them. It's just a matter of getting out the timing light and checking. My plan is to try to recurve a stock esc distributor. As a matter of fact an exact number like 21* isn't necessary for attempt 1 just close as long as it's in the vicinity of 20*
I can't really tell you what the stock distributor did, I never checked when my OEM distributor was in there and I've never checked total timing in the current one. I've just seen how fast the mechanical timing comes in and where it stops going up but never turned the dial on the timing light to get a number. Other than having some continued issues with the vacuum advance which prompted me to swap the adjustable unit back in. EGR works great so it's not that. I just think this aftermarket distributor has a little to much overlap. Or it's just my high mileage 305, but the thing has much better power now. It's to bad though I think I have an exhaust valve on it's way out, so I'll have to decide this winter if I want to tear into that 305 and do a valve job or drop in a 350..... I kind of hate to do either. I swore I wouldn't do major internal work on the 305 but now that I have stuff like the ESC functioning properly I hate to throw all that work away if I install a 350.
 

Turbo4whl

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Posts
3,154
Reaction score
7,320
Location
Downingtown, PA
First Name
Wayne
Truck Year
1974
Truck Model
Jimmy
Engine Size
350
Is there a reason why you couldn't still run the ESC with the 350? Maybe you could add some compression when you build the 350.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
Is there a reason why you couldn't still run the ESC with the 350? Maybe you could add some compression when you build the 350.
That's what I was planning long term 355 aluminum heads 10:1 compression with esc
 

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
Is there a reason why you couldn't still run the ESC with the 350? Maybe you could add some compression when you build the 350.
And that's actually a really good point. I "think" I've never seen one, but have heard that there were a few 350's that did roll with the ESC. The only reason not to would be the difficulty in getting a good module if mine ever croaks again. To that end I suppose the answer is not to overdue it with the compression, but to use the ESC to put a little more advance in particularly at cruse and it might do a little better for mileage than a regular 350. That way I would be able to run without the ESC if needed in the future without so many complications like on the 305. Sounds like a plan.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
@SirRobyn0 I had an absolutely worthless conversation with standard motor parts tech. Trying to get some advance specs. An even more worthless conversation with MSD who when tech 1 couldn't answer transferred me to tech 2,about then I figured I should put in a job app. there. Anyway back when I was telling you to try to find a factory advance with the correct hg specs. and make a limiter so advance would drop out so you could run more advance and not ping. In my search for specs today I came across these. Take a look you might be able to get some more timing.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2023-09-21_212031.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-09-21_212031.jpg
    93.7 KB · Views: 43
  • Screenshot_2023-09-21_211907.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-09-21_211907.jpg
    76.8 KB · Views: 42
  • Screenshot_2023-09-21_211823.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-09-21_211823.jpg
    78.9 KB · Views: 40

SirRobyn0

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Posts
6,755
Reaction score
11,406
Location
In the woods in Western Washington
First Name
Rob
Truck Year
1984
Truck Model
C20
Engine Size
305
@SirRobyn0 I had an absolutely worthless conversation with standard motor parts tech. Trying to get some advance specs. An even more worthless conversation with MSD who when tech 1 couldn't answer transferred me to tech 2,about then I figured I should put in a job app. there. Anyway back when I was telling you to try to find a factory advance with the correct hg specs. and make a limiter so advance would drop out so you could run more advance and not ping. In my search for specs today I came across these. Take a look you might be able to get some more timing.
Your absolutely right, without a doubt a limiter combined with a better vac advance can, would likely be better. Heck I still have the original can from my original distributor I could use and limit. But at the time I needed to use the truck and I had the adjustable can on hand, and it's working well enough that I haven't made the time to tinker with it further.
 

Ricko1966

Full Access Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Posts
5,585
Reaction score
9,065
Location
kansas
First Name
Rick
Truck Year
1975
Truck Model
c20
Engine Size
350
I'm still researching for me but good news for you. If you make a stop plate like the pic I ll put up make it so screwed down it touches the pin,remove I don't remember the amount I'll get it for you from the end of the plate that will limit vacuum advance so you can set your adjustable at a looser setting. .125 = 10* .135= 12* I think I'm going to try that buick can it has a strong following .
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2023-09-21_233445.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-09-21_233445.jpg
    59.8 KB · Views: 38
  • Screenshot_2023-09-21_233552.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-09-21_233552.jpg
    59.3 KB · Views: 45
  • Screenshot_2023-09-21_233603.jpg
    Screenshot_2023-09-21_233603.jpg
    63.2 KB · Views: 48

Forum statistics

Threads
44,391
Posts
956,273
Members
36,681
Latest member
91k5user
Top