ESC need someone that knows more about ESC system than I do

[scrap--metal]

I'm glad to hear your making progress. You sure deserve it after all the work you've put into your ESC system.

 

[Itali83]

Such a journey! I applaud you on keeping after it! I’m glad I never had any squares with the 305 but can totally get wanting to keep the esc alive seeing how much of a necessity it is for those motors to run decently at all. Hope all is right with it and you can enjoy some miles on the old girl now.


Ben

 

[SirRobyn0]

@scrap--metal & @Itali83 Thanks guys I appreciate it. Yes, it has been quite a journey and I now know more about the ESC system than I ever wanted....

Ben, I will say that everything I've tried. I've tried running a regular HEI distributor and a ESC distributor bypassed, they both have to be massively retarded to avoid severe pinging. This generation 305 really does the ESC to perform like it should and it's such a night and day difference and it's much more pleasurable to run the old 305 with the ESC. It's unfortunate getting a good module is so hard.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Well tonight's drive just confirmed that the ESC system is functioning well. During 2 hours of driving I did hear some ping, the first one I would describe as there and gone. It seems to me like 85% of the time the ESC curtails pinging before I can hear it. At this point I pretty well know when it "likes" to ping and having it not ping under those conditions tells it's curtailing it before I can hear it. 10% of the time I'd get what I'd call ping and gone. Like I'd hear one or two moderate pings, and then it's gone. And 5% of the time I'd get random very mild pinging that I assume is either to irregular for the system to "hear" or right on the threadhold. What I mean by that is if it was a modern system where I could plug a scanner in and watch the knock counts and timing retard, I wouldn't be surprised if it's detecting knock, pulling out 4D, knock goes away so after whatever the programmed amount of time goes by it allows full timing, which results in 1 mild ping I can hear and it pulls timing back again.



14 pages, whew. Started just shy of 2 years ago. I gave up or had to stop twice, almost gave it up again after this last defective module, which turned out I'd left the power to the ESC disconnected. Thank you very, very much everyone shared your knowledge and that gave ideas. I wouldn't have never got it working without you or I'd still be fiddling with it.

If something interesting happens I'll be sure to update this thread.

I have a feeling I'll see a little better fuel economy out it and maybe I'll give an update after I've gone though a few tanks. What I'm really looking forward to is hauling my first load with the ESC working. I'll bet I see a little better power and I bet if I fill it with premium before hauling a heavy load, I'll see even more improvement in the power department. Anyhow it will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[Trucksareforwork]

Such a journey! I applaud you on keeping after it! I’m glad I never had any squares with the 305 but can totally get wanting to keep the esc alive seeing how much of a necessity it is for those motors to run decently at all. Hope all is right with it and you can enjoy some miles on the old girl now.


Ben

I agree with this. I tried to bring ESC back to my truck and when I got a functioning module, I didn't like the way the truck ran (real mushy, slow), and I quit right there. I don't have Robyn's pinging issues however.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I agree with this. I tried to bring ESC back to my truck and when I got a functioning module, I didn't like the way the truck ran (real mushy, slow), and I quit right there. I don't have Robyn's pinging issues however.

So for me, without the ESC I have to retard the timing quite a bit, so that's when it's power is not at it's best. With the ESC functioning the power is better, sort of. So WOT seems... (how do I explain this?) slightly more power under certain conditions. It use to like to ping at 3K and over with the hammer down, so once I hit 3K I assume the ESC must pull 4D out, because at that point the power seems the same. For me the big change is not only can I set the initial timing to spec but I don't have to dial back vacuum advance, so there is a huge improvement in part throttle power.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I think I've got a little carb tuning to do as well. The PO installed an edelbrock thunder 1806 on the truck, that's the precursor to AVS carb BTW. I've long suspected that it's a little lean under power. So today I hauled this load of scrap, just junk that has collected at the farm. Hauled it off to the scrap yard.

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Still got some pinging under certain throttle conditions. I just never wanted to mess with the carb jets and rods until I could run it at the proper timing setting, my previous solve was to either keep my foot out of it when loaded or to run premium gas. It would sure be nice to be able to monitor knock counts, but I'm sure I felt the ESC doing it's thing. So I've ordered the next step richer rods, suppose to be delivered on Sunday.

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ok I've really tried to keep this thread just about the ESC but as we all know each system works together to make the engine run so I'm going to touch on carb stuff a little in this post.

So I ordered the next step richer rods Friday, as it would turn out what I needed was not a common rod, possibly because Edelbrock only made the Thunder carb for a short time. I received them this morning. The Edelbrock thunder is pretty much an AVS II but without the annular boosters. It's a 600CFM carb which is probably slightly larger for the 305, which makes the vacuum signal a little weaker as you put your foot into it which results in it being a touch leaner. So that would explain it being a little lean.

So put the rods in and drove it this afternoon. I was not expecting this, but there is an obvious increase in power when stepping down on the skinny pedal. So that pretty much confirms it was a touch lean in the power enrichment circuit. Whether or not that will nip the little bit of pinging in the buttt I was getting when hauling remains to be seen. I'll be doing a feed haul on Saturday so that'll be 200 miles round trip, 100 miles with a ton of feed in the bed, so I should know after that,

 

[SirRobyn0]

Ok I've got a little more of an update and a little trip report too.

So the ESC is definitely working correctly now. The leanness in the power enrichment circuit in the carb has been corrected.

Today I drove the truck about 200 miles to get feed. So 6 empty 55 gallon barrels on the way up, 6 filled 55 gallon barrels on the way down. That's a little over a ton of feed about 2,200lbs. I've made this trip many times with this amount of feed so I know very well how she behaves.

So on the way there (empty). I felt like she had a little more spunkk, but what really surprised me was gas mileage. Typically running empty on the freeway averaging 70 - 75MPH I'll be right around 14, or just a little north but not more than 14.5, and that would be more obtainable in the 65-70 range it seems. So we hit a little traffic around Marysville, but other than that I pretty much ran in the 70 - 75. Filled it up and ran the numbers. 15.4 MPG. So that's better than 1MPG increase I'll get to why I think that happened in a minute.

Coming back loaded, a little more than a ton of feed in the bed. There are couple hills on I-5 that would slow me down a little loaded like this, but the most noteworthy one is the hillside motel hill and if any of the local guys read this and know where Hillside motel in Conway used to be (you can still see the sign from the highway), that hill would always slow me down to 55, and I'd be in the right lane, in second gear with the seconaries opened up. Well this time I was in the middle lane, did the entire hill in 3rd and I don't think I had the skinny pedal more than 1/2 way down. That was sure nice cruising up that hill with ease.

So I attribute the increase in mileage and the increase in power to both having the ESC working, enabling me to time the thing correctly and not run around retarded, but also fixing the lean enrichment circuit. In the past from cruise throttle to the point the seconaries opened there was little added power in that bit of throttle, and even the secondaries seemed a little anemic, which is somewhat normal for 305, but still. Of course she's still no 454, but I've picked up added fuel economy and added power, so I'm very happy about that, and feel like the long process with getting the ESC functional was worth while.

I think the only complaint I have is that when empty and running in overdrive at certain speeds, it's probably most prevalent in the 55 - 60mph range, if I'd step on the gas some but not enough to get a downshift, or just before it downshifted, it would lug the engine, without the ESC even running with it retarded it would want to ping, sometimes bad. With the ESC it doesn't ping but I think it has to pull the entire 8D out to do it, because I feel a little drop in power right at that spot. Really I'm being critical to complain about it and I'm not really complaining just taking note of it. Both the ESC distributors I've run in the truck started the mechanical advance very early like around 1K RPM so there is a ton of overlap, in vacuum and mechanical advances, so I image I could tune this out by installing stiffer springs, but as long as the ESC keeps on working I don't think it's really worthwhile.

So I feel like all of this has been very much worthwhile and I'm glad I stuck with it!

 

[Novapwr]

I've fine tuned my Nova Edelbrock by changing the springs. It's worth trying. I see the tuning kit for the Thunder carbs available for under $80.

 

[SirRobyn0]

I've fine tuned my Nova Edelbrock by changing the springs. It's worth trying. I see the tuning kit for the Thunder carbs available for under $80.

Right, but the thing is that changing the springs doesn't change the amount fuel it changes when enrichment begins. I'm happy with enrichment timing that seems fine. I did think about buying the tuning kit, but the rod I installed did not come in the kit. The closest thing the kit contains is a rod that would be the next step richer for both cruse and enrichment. I didn't want to change cruse. A couple reasons for this. It's a 305, with a 600CFM carb which might be a little big. A little large on carb size will often cause enrichment circuits to be a little lean as the vacuum signal is not as strong when stepping on the throttle. Also looking at my plugs I do not believe cruse to be lean. So I just went from the original .068 x .047 rod to .068 x .042, which really isn't a lot of change and I'm happy with the effect. I think the tuning chart says that's like 5% richer on enrichment.

 

[thornbeck]

I totally enjoyed this thread and read all 14 pages.

I have a 1984 C10 with 305/TH350-C and ESC. It's all original with nothing removed or bypassed. I bought it a couple years ago from the original owner and made the decision to replace every rubber hose under the hood (about 25+ feet worth). I also replaced the sparkplugs, plug wires, distributor cap/rotor, air filter, PCV and had the carb rebuilt. It runs very well and averages around 14MPG pulling a 5x8 wood floor utility trailer with ATV through the mountains of WV.

I just checked the timing for the first time this past weekend and it was at 8° with the line removed/plugged from the distributor vacuum advance canister. Prior to adjusting the timing, I would typically get some hesitation when starting from a dead stop and also hear pinging at 35+ MPH when the TH350-C would lock up too early. I bumped the timing back back down to 4° and the hesitation is gone and the pinging sounds to be less or close to none.

I also read that these 305's were designed to run 87 octane gas and anything higher, the engine will run rough. I can say my stock truck fits this to a T. When I first got the truck and after all of the above maintenance, I would fill it up with 93 octane and during certain conditions it ran rough and had a vibration at both idle and at 65MPH. I am guessing this was the pinging. I have been running nothing but 87 since I figured this out and have not experienced any rough running.

If anyone is still trying to get their ESC working and is in need of pictures of vacuum lines, wiring or anything related to a stock configuration, please let me know. I feel my truck is a great reference example.

-Tim
*attached is a picture of the truck

 

[SirRobyn0]

I totally enjoyed this thread and read all 14 pages.

I have a 1984 C10 with 305/TH350-C and ESC. It's all original with nothing removed or bypassed. I bought it a couple years ago from the original owner and made the decision to replace every rubber hose under the hood (about 25+ feet worth). I also replaced the sparkplugs, plug wires, distributor cap/rotor, air filter, PCV and had the carb rebuilt. It runs very well and averages around 14MPG pulling a 5x8 wood floor utility trailer with ATV through the mountains of WV.

I just checked the timing for the first time this past weekend and it was at 8° with the line removed/plugged from the distributor vacuum advance canister. Prior to adjusting the timing, I would typically get some hesitation when starting from a dead stop and also hear pinging at 35+ MPH when the TH350-C would lock up too early. I bumped the timing back back down to 4° and the hesitation is gone and the pinging sounds to be less or close to none.

I also read that these 305's were designed to run 87 octane gas and anything higher, the engine will run rough. I can say my stock truck fits this to a T. When I first got the truck and after all of the above maintenance, I would fill it up with 93 octane and during certain conditions it ran rough and had a vibration at both idle and at 65MPH. I am guessing this was the pinging. I have been running nothing but 87 since I figured this out and have not experienced any rough running.

If anyone is still trying to get their ESC working and is in need of pictures of vacuum lines, wiring or anything related to a stock configuration, please let me know. I feel my truck is a great reference example.

-Tim
*attached is a picture of the truck

Glad you enjoyed. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic under the hood. Doesn't have to be to detailed I just really enjoy seeing these engines in their stock form!

 

[thornbeck]

Glad you enjoyed. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic under the hood. Doesn't have to be to detailed I just really enjoy seeing these engines in their stock form!

Here are some pictures of the engine bay.

 

[SirRobyn0]

@thornbeck Thanks! I love it! It's all there just like it should be. I see the thermac tube, the cold air tube, a bunch of new vacuum lines, the air pump is there an hooked up as is the charcoal canister!

Here's mine!

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