Downside to Vortec heads
- Thread starter MikeB
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Rusty Nail
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Wow! The tension is THICK in this here thread!
What a great time! Where's that guy with the popcorn?
So what if I want to pick on something and talk ****? Welcome to the internet - says the guy building 416s for a 350....(again!)
Why bother with this thread? Vortec heads are not exactly entry level nor the best bang for the buck. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain of vortex wonderment, it's a ruse for MOST people. Most people don't know head gaskets cost 30 bucks?
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What a great time! Where's that guy with the popcorn?
So what if I want to pick on something and talk ****? Welcome to the internet - says the guy building 416s for a 350....(again!)
Why bother with this thread? Vortec heads are not exactly entry level nor the best bang for the buck. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain of vortex wonderment, it's a ruse for MOST people. Most people don't know head gaskets cost 30 bucks?
[yt]NZR64EF3OpA[/yt]
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74 Shortbed
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The problem is that it usually doesn't go as cheaply as it did for you. Most of the time people buy a new set of heads for $600-$700 and then have to change intakes and get self aligning rockers too. And they usually can't run the cam they want without machining and/or valvetrain upgrades.
Most people that take a chance on cheap used heads, end up with cracked scrap metal.
Rusty Nail
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To 87 Jimmy : specifically regarding your question of alternative heads; I am one of many that chooses alternative sbc heads. I am ATM having a pair of H.O 305 heads rebuilt for a 350. #416 casting that I paid $50 as found on Craigslist.
My machinist is charging $270 for a rebuild with extreme minor porting and matched valve springs. I said "zap the casting flash and even em up".This is my second time to make this swap, after amazing success on the last engine. That IS bang for the buck. With substantial porting, they will flow very, very well while raising compression a full one point without changing pistons. Laughable 20? horsepower for $350?
Of course I voted for Trump....
Twice!
My machinist loves the 882 cast heads? He says you can port the crap out of old fat ones and make em flow great? Let me be clear, sometimes the same number heads have an older and newer mold. OLD cylinder heads that start with a 3 and have fewer digits are usually thicker "better" heads. Date codes, Open vs closed, whatever. Research. That is a VERY BRIEF outline and there is mostly truth in that statement, do research.
Good unsolicited advice says do ample research and be patient. You can find screamin deals on great heads anywhere and be WAY under budget and have a worry free mod that will bolt on make better power. Maybe port your own heads...More porting = more power = more money.
Or you can run out and buy vortex and buy and buy and buy and buy then cross your fingers.
That's what it's all about, right? Horsepower per dollar.
Patience is key. That cannot be overstated.
I am after the right pair of 041 heads to make love at eventually.
I will love them and pet them....I might even name them George when I find some that work in my budget goals because I WILL get them. My infatuation with the 350 horse/350 is no secret. Maybe 461s?
There's a $1000 pair of 461X heads on eBay right now and that would be the epitome of cool.
441s? The original "H.O." hot 400 head could find home on my 511 pretty quick! TOUGH to find with factory steam holes...
[yt]2JlVqfC8-UI[/yt]
Here is a good start to your research friends.
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/258259-305-cylinder-14014416-airflow.html
http://forums.superchevy.com/chevy-...magazine/top-10-sbc-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-9902-porting-engine-heads/
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how...ion-53623.html#/topics/53623?page=1&_k=ju0nup
What's up , duck?
My machinist is charging $270 for a rebuild with extreme minor porting and matched valve springs. I said "zap the casting flash and even em up".This is my second time to make this swap, after amazing success on the last engine. That IS bang for the buck. With substantial porting, they will flow very, very well while raising compression a full one point without changing pistons. Laughable 20? horsepower for $350?
Of course I voted for Trump....
Twice!
My machinist loves the 882 cast heads? He says you can port the crap out of old fat ones and make em flow great? Let me be clear, sometimes the same number heads have an older and newer mold. OLD cylinder heads that start with a 3 and have fewer digits are usually thicker "better" heads. Date codes, Open vs closed, whatever. Research. That is a VERY BRIEF outline and there is mostly truth in that statement, do research.
Good unsolicited advice says do ample research and be patient. You can find screamin deals on great heads anywhere and be WAY under budget and have a worry free mod that will bolt on make better power. Maybe port your own heads...More porting = more power = more money.
Or you can run out and buy vortex and buy and buy and buy and buy then cross your fingers.
That's what it's all about, right? Horsepower per dollar.
Patience is key. That cannot be overstated.
I am after the right pair of 041 heads to make love at eventually.
I will love them and pet them....I might even name them George when I find some that work in my budget goals because I WILL get them. My infatuation with the 350 horse/350 is no secret. Maybe 461s?There's a $1000 pair of 461X heads on eBay right now and that would be the epitome of cool.
441s? The original "H.O." hot 400 head could find home on my 511 pretty quick! TOUGH to find with factory steam holes...
[yt]2JlVqfC8-UI[/yt]
Here is a good start to your research friends.
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/258259-305-cylinder-14014416-airflow.html
http://forums.superchevy.com/chevy-...magazine/top-10-sbc-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-9902-porting-engine-heads/
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how...ion-53623.html#/topics/53623?page=1&_k=ju0nup
What's up , duck?
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MikeB
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Nope. I don't hate Vortecs, but want to pass along my experiences and opinions. As I said earlier, I'm glad your used heads worked out for you.
What part numbers did you use for springs, retainers and locks? And how much lift does your cam have?
Always good to know what other guys are doing.
Here's what I used.
GM 12499224 LS6 beehive springs -- installed @ 1.750" using:
CompCams 787-16 retainers
CompCams 648-16 locks
Along with tapping the seals all the way on the valve guide bosses, I ended up with .570" valve travel before coil bind, which is good for .510" valve lift. (.570" minus .060" safety margin)
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Rusty Nail
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Check it out! 20 bucks!? Twist my arm first. I'll find another one...It can hang out.
Pritty good deal? I got a Jackson!
Sure I'll meet ya at Walmart, stranger on Craigslist... 3pm sounds great!
I drive an old K5 - can't miss me.
(He's in a Rav4 he says?) Whatever.
186 was the head used on the 370hp solid lifter LT1 and the DZ302?. That's fockin cool!
I read the iron eagle SR Torquer head was discontinued, those are cool if you run across them.
Everybody has vortex fever and that's OK for them, I'm not like that. Ever driven a 5.3 truck? They make a lot of racket but it's not really movin! Sure a vortex head might make more power, but you have to spend a lot of extra money and make numerous other modifications to make them work -I do not believe that the COUPLE OF HUNDREDTHS you MAY pick up on the track make all that trouble worth it. I pass, more for you fans. In the meanwhile, the stuff I want gets cheaper and cheaper.
In reality how ever many horse they claim a vortex makes, doesn't make it cool and it's not gonna sound top fuel wicked like a 58cc head on a 350 does, or running an old pair of fuelies or double hump, camel humps, or whatever. I speak of appealing to a different target audience... On the street, the 30 cc flow difference is negligible, there are many other things to consider. Peak numbers and max camshaft lift leave a lot out and life isn't lived on a dyno... Vortex might be okay if you were starting from scratch, but most of us already have a lifetime of cool parts that we've collected and drive trucks that are 30-40 years old . I'm over it. Yes, there are cooler options that are cheaper. Thanks @MikeB, hope somebody had a good time!
https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/5998397387.html
Pritty good deal? I got a Jackson!
Sure I'll meet ya at Walmart, stranger on Craigslist... 3pm sounds great!
I drive an old K5 - can't miss me.
(He's in a Rav4 he says?) Whatever.186 was the head used on the 370hp solid lifter LT1 and the DZ302?. That's fockin cool!
I read the iron eagle SR Torquer head was discontinued, those are cool if you run across them.
Everybody has vortex fever and that's OK for them, I'm not like that. Ever driven a 5.3 truck? They make a lot of racket but it's not really movin! Sure a vortex head might make more power, but you have to spend a lot of extra money and make numerous other modifications to make them work -I do not believe that the COUPLE OF HUNDREDTHS you MAY pick up on the track make all that trouble worth it. I pass, more for you fans. In the meanwhile, the stuff I want gets cheaper and cheaper.
In reality how ever many horse they claim a vortex makes, doesn't make it cool and it's not gonna sound top fuel wicked like a 58cc head on a 350 does, or running an old pair of fuelies or double hump, camel humps, or whatever. I speak of appealing to a different target audience... On the street, the 30 cc flow difference is negligible, there are many other things to consider. Peak numbers and max camshaft lift leave a lot out and life isn't lived on a dyno... Vortex might be okay if you were starting from scratch, but most of us already have a lifetime of cool parts that we've collected and drive trucks that are 30-40 years old . I'm over it. Yes, there are cooler options that are cheaper. Thanks @MikeB, hope somebody had a good time!
https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/5998397387.html
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