CPP Upper Control Arms and Shims

[lasvegas76C10]

Hello,

New to the forum and new to working on a C10 (1976 Cheyenne). I have purchased upper/lower tubular control arms, modular drop spindles, new coils springs, etc., everything for the front end from CPP. Upon removing the upper control arms, I kept track of the shims from each stud. The number of shims range from 4 to 6 on each stud, plus a thick spacer that the stud passes through.

My question, do I need to put back all of the shims in the same place when installing the new upper control arms? If not, how do I know how many to shims to re-install? I know this may be basic for most of you, but I'm at the point where I'm stuck and I don't want to do proceed down a wrong path.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Rudy

 

[idahovette]

I would put them ALL back, but immediately get the front end aligned when you get it back together

 

[lasvegas76C10]

Will do. Thank you.

 

[Scott91370]

As mentioned, you do need to put them back in the same position as they came from. If you're lolwering it using springs, when you get it aligned you'll probably end up with a couple more shims than you have now to get the camber & caster back in spec.

 

[bluex]

Personally, leave the thick spacer an take the rest of the shims out an have the shop start from scratch. The CPP arms have geometry improvements over stock. If you don't leave them out they will try to just set your toe an say the rest was "good enough"

Ask for these specs as well. At least +5.0* on the caster (should be easy as those arms have extra built in already) -.5* camber an toe can be factory setting of 1/16-1/8 in. With these settings it'll drive much better an sportier. The factory specs leave alot to be desired but sometimes its hard to find a shop to do the alignment the way you want an it'll definitely cost more. Be prepared to call around an ask if they will set it to your specs not the computers an that its going to meed shimmed. Pulling the inner fenders will make it easier for them an more likely that they will do it for you.

 

[LocoLocal]

Personally, leave the thick spacer an take the rest of the shims out an have the shop start from scratch. The CPP arms have geometry improvements over stock. If you don't leave them out they will try to just set your toe an say the rest was "good enough"

Ask for these specs as well. At least +5.0* on the caster (should be easy as those arms have extra built in already) -.5* camber an toe can be factory setting of 1/16-1/8 in. With these settings it'll drive much better an sportier. The factory specs leave alot to be desired but sometimes its hard to find a shop to do the alignment the way you want an it'll definitely cost more. Be prepared to call around an ask if they will set it to your specs not the computers an that its going to meed shimmed. Pulling the inner fenders will make it easier for them an more likely that they will do it for you.

Your posts have been incredibly helpful in guiding me through lowering my truck. Thank you.

Not surprisingly, the ball joints on my 45 year old UCAs are bad. Question: are tubular UCAs worth it?

A new set of stock UCAs would run me roughly $150 from RockAuto. A new set up CPP tubular UCAs is about $400.

Not a huge difference in the grand scheme, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again!

 

[TotalyHucked]

Your posts have been incredibly helpful in guiding me through lowering my truck. Thank you.

Not surprisingly, the ball joints on my 45 year old UCAs are bad. Question: are tubular UCAs worth it?

A new set of stock UCAs would run me roughly $150 from RockAuto. A new set up CPP tubular UCAs is about $400.

Not a huge difference in the grand scheme, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again!

Depends on what your suspension setup is and what you're doing with the truck and how much you drive it. For most street driven weekend cruisers, the stock uppers will be fine. My truck's been lowered either 4.5/6 or 5/8 for over 4 years and ~55k miles now with stock upper and lower control arms. I'm not *quite* in spec for camber but I'm not far off, my first set of front tires lasted over 25k miles. The tubular uppers would be a benefit for me as much as I drive. But I have friends that only cruise around locally on the weekends and might put 2-5k miles a year on their truck, I would say in that situation the stock uppers would be fine.

 

[LocoLocal]

Depends on what your suspension setup is and what you're doing with the truck and how much you drive it. For most street driven weekend cruisers, the stock uppers will be fine. My truck's been lowered either 4.5/6 or 5/8 for over 4 years and ~55k miles now with stock upper and lower control arms. I'm not *quite* in spec for camber but I'm not far off, my first set of front tires lasted over 25k miles. The tubular uppers would be a benefit for me as much as I drive. But I have friends that only cruise around locally on the weekends and might put 2-5k miles a year on their truck, I would say in that situation the stock uppers would be fine.

Thanks for the reply. I just started on my 5/7 static drop. All my projects tend to snowball and I never seem to be satisfied, so I am sure I'll go 6/8 in the future. I don't expect to receive noticeable improvements in drivability but my thought is, at only $250 more, if they save me from having to replace ball joints more often, then they might be worth it.

Then again, I am more in the category that your friends are, so I maybe I will stick with stock UCAs.

 

[TotalyHucked]

Thanks for the reply. I just started on my 5/7 static drop. All my projects tend to snowball and I never seem to be satisfied, so I am sure I'll go 6/8 in the future. I don't expect to receive noticeable improvements in drivability but my thought is, at only $250 more, if they save me from having to replace ball joints more often, then they might be worth it.

Then again, I am more in the category that your friends are, so I maybe I will stick with stock UCAs.

Going that low, if you'll have a nice wheel and tire setup especially, I might splurge. The only reason I didn't is because I've always planned to put a whole front and rear suspension kit on it to make it handle. I knew that any of the tubulars that bolt to the stock crossmember wouldn't work with the handling kit so I'd be wasting money. I have a TCI Engineering kit to go on in the off season this year and hoping to get a little lower with that.

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[LocoLocal]

Going that low, if you'll have a nice wheel and tire setup especially, I might splurge. The only reason I didn't is because I've always planned to put a whole front and rear suspension kit on it to make it handle. I knew that any of the tubulars that bolt to the stock crossmember wouldn't work with the handling kit so I'd be wasting money. I have a TCI Engineering kit to go on in the off season this year and hoping to get a little lower with that.

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I've got the stock rallys on there right now, which is the main reason I bought the CPP tubular lowers.

But, I might go bigger later.

 

[Bennyt]

Check out POL camber correction kit for those of you looking for a more aesthetically pleasing look

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[bluex]

Your posts have been incredibly helpful in guiding me through lowering my truck. Thank you.

Not surprisingly, the ball joints on my 45 year old UCAs are bad. Question: are tubular UCAs worth it?

A new set of stock UCAs would run me roughly $150 from RockAuto. A new set up CPP tubular UCAs is about $400.

Not a huge difference in the grand scheme, but I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again!

I don't disagree with anything huck said. Check your bushings too, honestly if they need replaced I'd buy the tube uppers. The bushings are cheap but pretty labor intensive to replace an you run the risk of bending the arm when pressing them in if you aren't careful.

I see another post below saying you have the lowers so unless it's just not in the budget, having the uppers to match will help with all the geometry. Idk that it will help with ball joint lifespan but they are bolted in, so no rivets to mess with at least.

 

[TotalyHucked]

Yeah, Paul is right. Rebuilding the arms is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGEEE pain in the ass. You can buy new UCA's (that's what I did) but you can't buy the lowers. Me and my dad rebuilt the lowers. We both said that's the last time we'll do that