cold radiator?

[Raider L]

Yeah, you guys are right on all counts. My original radiator size is 27 1/2" X 19" and this new one is the same size. And there was the suggestion I get a larger radiator to get the cores I had in my old radiator, which the new one has. But I would have to change my whole radiator support and I wouldn't be able to shut the hood. And the framing of the support I have won't allow me to get any different size radiator, which is fine with me I can work with what I've got.
I run a Robert Shaw 180 degree therm. The Shaw therm. if some of you aren't familiar with it, has nearly a 1" opening in it when it's fully open instead of the tiny opening Stant therm's have. It's designed for performance engines so that the max coolant gets to engines that run somewhat warmer than stock engines. And the Shaw is made to open precisely at the setting due to much better quality metals it's made from. I've never used a Stant in my engine.
I guess what the deal is I'm used to how that old stock radiator reacts to certain conditions and this all aluminum radiator reacts differently as it should. Reaction time of how the metals react to temp. changes show up on the temp. gauge differently than I was used to and I'm thinking that like "Grit dog" said, that there was something wrong with the gauge, that after twenty-five years that it was worn out or something. I even called Auto Meter and talked to them about if I could send it to them and have them check it and if something was wrong with it they could fix it. I did find out that they do repair their gauges.
So it's all cool. It's just this radiator reacts differently to temp. than what I was used to and it was making me think there was something wrong.
Hey, I'm puttin in a "Air/Oil Seperater" today. I don't know how long these things have been available, but I needed one for a long time. It's not that I have a oil problem but when I changed my intake gaskets recently I noticed how filthy the intake runners were with oil from that dang PVC valve blowing oil back into the engine so it will reburn "oil contaminates", stupid environmentalists. When I came back from Viet Nam I had saved most of my paychecks and went to my local
Ford dealership and paid cash for a new '69 Mustang 351 with a three speed stick, Red with a burgundy interior. I would have bought a fastback but the insurance was twice what it was on the one I got. The one I got was what was called a "Sport Back". You know how the '60's Chevelles had those wings on each side behind the rear window? Well, this model I got had them but about half that size. The 1969 Mustang was the coolest body style Ford ever had for that car.

 

[Swearbody]

OP, pump the brakes for a minute.
What thermostat do you have and how do you know the temp gauge is right?
Secondly, if you have a working thermostat, it does have a thermostat, correct? Then it should make no difference in ambient temperature.
Last, you live in Louisiana, it doesn’t get cold and there’s pretty much no chance you can’t get the engine up to operating temp even in “winter” down there.

They sell infrared thermometers at home depot for 30-70 bucks. I got my klein for 40. Point it at the radiator near the intake hose and verify temp there. Then use tool countless more times to diagnose many other things.
Maybe not ideal but I cant think of a better way to verify both the temp and gauge/sender

 

[Swearbody]

I installed a 3 core all aluminum radiator recently and now my water temp. gauge won't show but a dab over 180 F

I run a Robert Shaw 180 degree therm. The Shaw therm. if some of you aren't familiar with it, has nearly a 1" opening in it when it's fully open instead of the tiny opening Stant therm's have. It's designed for performance engines so that the max coolant gets to engines that run somewhat warmer than stock engines.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the Shaw is made to open
precisely at the setting
due to much better quality metals it's made from.

 

[Swearbody]

Im out!! Drops mic

 

[Raider L]

My point about the Mustang was that it had a PVC, wait a minute, it's "positive crankcase ventilation", uh PCV. I always get it mixed up. But I guess that valve has been on engines at least since the '60's. And it doesn't matter a single bit either way. Another thing was I found that after we got the engine in we put a filtered breather on the valve cover thinking it was okay. That is until the engine started using oil. I thought, "How the heck could a brand new engine use oil?" There was other things about how the heads were built, but I may go into that at some other time. It's figuring "How does the system work?" That's when I realized I needed to get rid of the breather and plug the hole in the oil fill hole in the valve cover. Why? Because when you have high pressure generated by higher compression than stock, along with high RPM you need to get rid of that pressure by venting it out through the valve cover, I guess it's a convenient place to do it and that pressure comes up through the oil return holes in the heads. Well, my engine is not that high of compression, like 9.2:1 and I didn't need to vent it. What the breather cap was doing was it allowed the oil to gather in the top of the heads and it was finding it's way past the valve guides, and this is the details I mentioned earlier I would talk about, the valve guides were over reamed to allow for expansion of the valve stems from racing which I didn't plan on doing. My engine builder was given the wrong info on how I planned on using the engine. Later I had other ones put in with the correct ream.
So I had to go around to try to find a plug type cap which I finally did find. And my oil consumption did slow until I got my heads redone. I have silicone bronze valve guides in the heads with stainless valves. I think they're SIS valves, which are okay. I wanted Manley but my engine builder said if you're not going to race it why spend the extra money? Okay. I also have Viton seals instead of ordinary rubber umbrella seals. The Viton are THE way to go, unless you're using Teflon. They last forever and seal much better than regular rubber. The reason why Teflon wasn't a good deal is Teflon will deflect. And once it's deflected it stays deflected and will leak past the stem. If you are racing you will be rebuilding heads anyway and those guides will be changed out and it won't matter what's wrong with them. So the Viton is more practical for everyday use on performance engines.

 

[DoubleDingo]

Thats fair and true. I never run anything other than a 195. I certainly cant speak on the physics like I understand it all out. I was assuming since he was in Louisianian he never saw below 30deg for more than a few hours. But totally see your point however ive never had a c10 heater not work because it wasnt 195deg or 180 for that matter...mine usually starts heating up the cab around 160deg.
I did have a problem in an XJ 4.0 that did the same cycling phenomenon so I know it happens in that community. I went with a two stage thermostat and had no more issues on mine. I actually have one around here somewhere for an F2t mazda turbo engine if anyone wants it,LOL

In frigid cold a 195 is a must, learned the hard way back in high school. The truck heaters, even my '65 gets the cab good and hot, but again, a 195 is used during the winter.

 

[Frankenchevy]

I’d run the pcv system. Breather in one valve cover, pcv valve in the other looped into the manifold/carb base. You can install a catch can between the pcv valve and manifold/carb. Just drain it every time you change your oil. That should intercept the oil vapor enough. Also, you can refer to the NOACK oil volatility chart to see how your oil stacks up. Some oils vaporize readily at higher crank case temperatures.

 

[Bextreme04]

My point about the Mustang was that it had a PVC, wait a minute, it's "positive crankcase ventilation", uh PCV. I always get it mixed up. But I guess that valve has been on engines at least since the '60's. And it doesn't matter a single bit either way. Another thing was I found that after we got the engine in we put a filtered breather on the valve cover thinking it was okay. That is until the engine started using oil. I thought, "How the heck could a brand new engine use oil?" There was other things about how the heads were built, but I may go into that at some other time. It's figuring "How does the system work?" That's when I realized I needed to get rid of the breather and plug the hole in the oil fill hole in the valve cover. Why? Because when you have high pressure generated by higher compression than stock, along with high RPM you need to get rid of that pressure by venting it out through the valve cover, I guess it's a convenient place to do it and that pressure comes up through the oil return holes in the heads. Well, my engine is not that high of compression, like 9.2:1 and I didn't need to vent it. What the breather cap was doing was it allowed the oil to gather in the top of the heads and it was finding it's way past the valve guides, and this is the details I mentioned earlier I would talk about, the valve guides were over reamed to allow for expansion of the valve stems from racing which I didn't plan on doing. My engine builder was given the wrong info on how I planned on using the engine. Later I had other ones put in with the correct ream.
So I had to go around to try to find a plug type cap which I finally did find. And my oil consumption did slow until I got my heads redone. I have silicone bronze valve guides in the heads with stainless valves. I think they're SIS valves, which are okay. I wanted Manley but my engine builder said if you're not going to race it why spend the extra money? Okay. I also have Viton seals instead of ordinary rubber umbrella seals. The Viton are THE way to go, unless you're using Teflon. They last forever and seal much better than regular rubber. The reason why Teflon wasn't a good deal is Teflon will deflect. And once it's deflected it stays deflected and will leak past the stem. If you are racing you will be rebuilding heads anyway and those guides will be changed out and it won't matter what's wrong with them. So the Viton is more practical for everyday use on performance engines.

I'm really confused on why you are concerned by your engine maintaining 180 degrees when you installed an extremely high flow 180 thermostat and a brand new high performance radiator. It sounds like it is functioning exactly how you set it up. Are you racing this truck?

It seems you have a few fundamental misconceptions on how these systems work as well... The PCV has very little to do with emissions and more to do with engine life. The difference in operating temperatures and heat cycling causes the oil to break down and also for condensation to form on the inside of the engine. PCV operates(in most old V-8's) by having a single air source in one valve cover(after the air filter in stock applications or using a breather filter in aftermarket applications) for air to enter the engine and a single one-way valve in the other valve cover connected to manifold vacuum. When you are cruising or sitting there idling, the engine is producing vacuum and is pulling filtered air from one valve cover, down through the engine, and then back up to the PCV valve to clear out the condensation and water/oil vapor from the engine. If you remove the PCV valve, you will get all kinds of water vapor mixing with your oil and it will be bad. The unfortunate side effect of this system is that lots of oil vapor is also pulled through the system and can make your intake yucky, but it doesn't really hurt anything. One solution is catch cans or an oil separator that can go between the intake and PCV valve. They work, but I've always found them to be more trouble than they are worth.

A properly set up engine shouldn't be pressurizing the crankcase much... just because you have high compression doesn't really mean anything. The compression should be contained by your rings if properly set up. The only way that should be happening is if you have worn rings or improperly broken in ones that are allowing a ton of blow-by.

 

[Snoots]

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[Raider L]

Bextreme04
Your comment is right, I have the principal correct just a bit backwards on the direction of flow. I do have my pcv valve going back into the intake and there is a suck and blow. You could be correct about some blow by but we did a leak down check at 50K and each cylinder was holding 97 and 98% pressure. That was a 100K+ miles ago. I have the most confidence our using deck plates for both the boring and honing so the block would be a long lasting block as far as sealing goes. And no, I don't race it although I have many years ago when the engine was fresh back in 1996-7. Mostly to test our building and component compatibility. I decided to use high silicone hyperuetectic cast pistons instead of forged so we could run tighter clearenses. I used Clevite rings so everything should be still doing their job since my hot rodding and racing friends used to pick on me that I drove my truck like an old lady going to church. Here I spent all that money and put all this good stuff in the motor and I didn't even want to use it. Ha, ha yeah, that's alright. Thirty years from now it will still be going with plenty of horses left over.
Now, I do understand that some full race parts won't work like some would think if you putt around because they are meant to run hard. I get that. That's why I had some very good engine people who did nothing but build all out racing heads and engines advise me on parts selection so I could get the most out of everything both full race and better than stock considered "high performance" parts. I've never studied so hard in my life when I was embarking on rebuilding my truck. I studied cams, heads, engine parts and their relationship to each other until I was blue in the face. It must have been about three or four months. When I emerged I was ready to build. I didn't know that much before and I didn't want somebody else doing the parts selection, machining, etc., because then it wouldn't be my motor, it would have been what somebody else would have done if they had the money.
Anybody ever heard of "Super Shops"? Many years ago we had one here in town. They've been gone for a long time. It's to bad. I heard the old man who owned them died and the kids only wanted the money so they sold them all off.
One of the guys who did a lot of work on my engine is a famous street racer now on TV. I'm very proud of him. He has worked very hard to get to where he is. And the guy had four kids! I couldn't figure out how he was feeding those kids and buying adjustable Jensen gear sets for his cam and having all this head work done. But he managed some how. It payed off big but after a lot of sacrifice on his and his family's part.

 

[idahovette]

Hmmmm, an OP derails his own thread???

 

[Snoots]

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[Grit dog]

Hmmmm, an OP derails his own thread???

I believe it’s called reminiscing.
Thought OP was a young feller who was confused about how a cooling system operates, but apparently not the case.

 

[Dave M]

Too deep for me!

 

[Raider L]

Hey, how do you put a photo in the block above my name? I have a photo of my truck I can put in there.