arched springs

[GreaseDog]

Or do the 4in 42 rear spring up front for a cheap 4in lift. C4 can give can give the basic run down on how to do it.
C4, Are you aware of how the 4in lift with 42in rear springs works as far as ride comfort. I going to make an assumption that its actually pretty good since the springs are actually longer.

if you're doing a 52" spring swap, you need to limit its travel, both in compression and droop. not doing so will have you overflexing the stock steering setup and maxing out the shocks very easily... though if you go to a longer travel shock, and crossover steering, you can have your cake and eat it too. those 52s are retarded flexy. i did a set on my K10/K30 truck back in 2002 when everybody started doing them. i even helped put together a bushing kit that was sold by Tim's Offroad to install the springs with no spacers or anything in the stock mounts.

 

[crazy4offroad]

Or do the 4in 42 rear spring up front for a cheap 4in lift. C4 can give can give the basic run down on how to do it.
C4, Are you aware of how the 4in lift with 42in rear springs works as far as ride comfort. I going to make an assumption that its actually pretty good since the springs are actually longer.

Sorry I'm so late to this, been working too much lately. Sounds like greasedog is the man on that mod, I havent ever tried it. Just read about it and thought it would be a quick, cheap way to lift the front 4". Now it seems easier said than done. I do know 52s are 4" longer than the stock units, and tried to work out how to re-center them. My front spring perches, I need to get a pic of them. There's a bracket directly under the radiator support with 4 rivet holes, but the perch's front is riveted to the rear set of holes, and another pair of brackets are riveted in, like it was a secondary thought on the production line. I'm guessing you could drill out those rivets and move the perch to where it "looks" like it's supposed to be, and gain 2" on the longer 52s. Then I dont know if longer rear shackles would make up the other 2", or how all this would possibly affect the steering geometry. GD is right though, crossover steering would be the best way to cure the inevitable steering issue.

 

[GreaseDog]

i just went out and measured the front hangers on my '78 frame stub, i couldn't remember why we were mounting them all the way forward. other than the further out you move it the bigger tire you can run with x lift (providing you're not afraid to butcher the front of the fenders). the rivet holes in the hanger itself are ~1 3/4" center, and the holes on the body mount that it mounts to are ~2 1/2". while you could slide it forward the 1 3/4", install 2 bolts and weld it solid, you would then not be able to get a socket to the body mount nut under the core support.

the easiest way to install 52s using all factory parts is to cut the 7 rivets that hold the hanger/body mount to the frame, and swap them side for side, and bolt them back on. then reposition your shackle hanger in the back for a decent shackle angle. IIRC i ended up with 7 1/2" center to center shackles with mine. shackle angle was leaned forward about 30*.

for those of you who don't know what this swap is really capable of...

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there are pics somewhere of the white K5 behind the one pictured in the same ditch, with both axles nearly 90* to each other. X both are equipped with 52" springs in the front, and the white K5 at least, has 56" long rear springs and a shackle flip.

 

[crazy4offroad]

Nice, that's some killer droop, it would make a coil sprung Jeep rock crawler envious! I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of that K5 flexed out too if you could find it. What did you end up doing to fix the over-stuff/droop? Relocated bumpstops for the stuff? What shocks would be best for the droop? Or relocate the shock mounts?

 

[bucket]

It seems a lot of guys run the ford shock towers, they just bolt on and are much taller.

Now how about the lifespan of the springs when they often see that much flex?

 

[89Suburban]

 

[GreaseDog]

you don't use shocks to limit droop. you use limit straps or chains.

 

[HotRodPC]

you don't use shocks to limit droop. you use limit straps or chains.

HUH ??? Thats what shocks are for isn't it??? Well OK then, I guess I can take my shocks off then and hang me some chains.

 

[crazy4offroad]

I didn't actually say "use shocks to stop the droop" I said which would work best WITH the droop. Springs can only droop so far there, slick. (get it, grease dog, slick...heh)

 

[GreaseDog]

HUH ??? Thats what shocks are for isn't it??? Well OK then, I guess I can take my shocks off then and hang me some chains.

if you run the shock so the piston contacts the end of its bore, it will eventually either break the shaft, break the piston from the end of the shaft, or blow the end of the tube out. stock suspensions have bumpstops, in both up and down, to keep the suspension from traveling too far and bottoming out the shock.

 

[GreaseDog]

sorry Curt, the way you worded it, i interpreted it as you were using them to limit the travel. my bad.

 

[HotRodPC]

if you run the shock so the piston contacts the end of its bore, it will eventually either break the shaft, break the piston from the end of the shaft, or blow the end of the tube out. stock suspensions have bumpstops, in both up and down, to keep the suspension from traveling too far and bottoming out the shock.

Yes, I'm fully aware of a shock make up and purpose. That's probably why I thoght it was funny. I knew what C4 meant too. He is correct, shocks will certainly limit travel, although thats the not their purpose at all, so if you want to limit travel, use taller shocks or bracketry and extensions, than limit what you want for travel, then as you mentioned chains or straps to limit travel.

I just love comments you hear when you have an ass load of weight on a vehicle. " Oh man, you're shocks are going to go bad. " or " You're going to break your shocks" BS !!! Shock don't hold the weight. Also why I don't like air shocks on a truck because most people are buying them for the wrong purpose.

Many will be suprised to know, the first main purpose of a shock is to HOLD THE TIRE TO THE GROUND. If you've ever seen a vehicle driving down the freeway and the front tires are bouncing like dribbling a basketball, its because it has bad shocks and the shocks are not holding the tire to the ground. This is also why you will have cupped tires with a bunch of flat spots all around the tire. This is due to poor shocks and can be caused by poor shocks even though they are not bad enough yet to cause the dribbling effect.
When you see trucks with 2 or 3 shocks on each wheel, this is because bigger tires take more pressure to hold the tire to the ground since the bigger tire will have more tendancy to bounce and with the force, it can sure overcome a single shock therefore rather than make stiffer stronger shocks, it would hurt ride quality with an effect of just running a straight piece of steel not allowing spring travel in an extreme example. So its best to have 2 or 3 shocks applying steady pressure and from different angles so you keep ride comfort while still keeping the biggo tire from bouncing. As expensive as big tires are, you're smart to add another shock to save your expensive tires from wearing out very early.
The next purpose of a shock is to control bounce of the chassis on the springs. No shocks, you're ride will bounce for a very long time with every bump or uneven surface in the road.

 

[GreaseDog]

i agree with your first two comments 100%, however the last part IMO is a little muddy.

the purpose of a shock is to control suspension bounce, as you said at the end, and in doing so, it keeps the tires planted on the ground.

i don't agree with the bits about multiple shocks, and multiple shock angles. your suspension travels in one arc, therefore your angles should be the same. in the case of a 4wd truck, as you mentioned with "big tires", the suspension will move up and down and slightly to the rear of the truck. in order to keep this under control, you need a shock with the top angled towards the back of the truck to match the arc of travel. any other position will serve no purpose but to bind the suspension.

as for multiple shocks being needed due to the large tires overcoming the force of the tire... you bought the wrong shock if you're having that issue. there is no "need" for more than one shock. often times adding more shocks will make the suspension stiff, killing ride quality.

 

[HotRodPC]

Sounds to me like a what came first argument, the chicken or the egg on the control bounce or hold the tire. But, I'll disagree if the bounce is controlled it holds the tire to the ground because it is 2 seperate processes. You can have tire dribbling going down the freeway with bad shocks, but that doesn't mean you'll be bouncing in the front end while the tire is dribbling. You can also have non stop bouncing in the front end on the right road but the tire will not be dribbling.
Really, you think a shock designed for a vehcile with 265 75R16 tires is strong enough on its own to control the dribble and added weight mass of say a 38-44in mudder tire? I'd say you use mutlple shocks to keep ride comfort. You're not adding a stiffer riding shock. You're just adding the same type comfy ride shocks in multiples instead of a stiffer shock to avoid the riding on a rock type feel. Rather than add a rock to beef up the strength for the bigger mass, you're just adding more cotton to control the extra mass and keeping the comfort.

I was taught these things in a required alignmentj and suspension class to get my ASE alignmnet tech cetrificaton and the way it was explained and demonstarted to me in that class it all made perfect sense. Of course, that was back in the 80's. Just like CPR is done differently now too, maybe technology has proved otherwise than what I was taught. I'm sure manufactuers can put out what info they want and explain things in whatever way they see fit to sell a product, so different people will have different opinions based on their experience.

 

[crazy4offroad]

i don't agree with the bits about multiple shocks, and multiple shock angles. your suspension travels in one arc, therefore your angles should be the same. in the case of a 4wd truck, as you mentioned with "big tires", the suspension will move up and down and slightly to the rear of the truck. in order to keep this under control, you need a shock with the top angled towards the back of the truck to match the arc of travel. any other position will serve no purpose but to bind the suspension.

The shocks on the back of my truck from the factory are in opposite directions. One points to the back, the other to the front.