AC HELP NEEDED..

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Howard Rogers

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I have a 86 gmc 2500 that sat in a cellar for 20 years.. very nice truck and original.. i would like to buy some R12 off eBay and charge it.. my concern is how much oil is in there and how much i should put in... i really dont know where to start.. we have a machine at work but its the new stuff and im not sure how to use it.. i was going to just put a couple cans R 12 in and try it but i hate to ruin anything.. i dont use it that often but i would like to see if it works.. thank you for the help
 

AuroraGirl

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what engine? what compressor you have? Also, I thought the heater core box had a sticker listing the weight of refrigerant and the amount of oil on a dry empty system? I could give you 1980 specs.. but thats not likely correct
 

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If it's sat that long it's gonna need to have all the seals and accumulator changed. Then vacuum and pressure check. Then you can move forward with Refrigerant assuming the compressor isn't seized.
 

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I guarantee you the oil’s black and nasty, and add the o-tube to the accumulator replacement. I wouldn’t add oil without draining the old out of the compressor and flushing the system. Need to know whether you have an A6 or R4 compressor. The internal compressor and manifold seals cannot remain supple with the system sitting like that for that amount of time. I highly doubt it would work for anymore than a few months before an o-ring gave out and puked the charge around the edge of the shell. If the physical wear to the compressor is low, you might get away with rebuilding it if you’re adamant about keeping it as original as possible. I’m visualizing an R4 compressor, but if it’s an A6, it’s a tougher unit and would likely do better with a rebuild.
 

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I guarantee you the oil’s black and nasty, and add the o-tube to the accumulator replacement. I wouldn’t add oil without draining the old out of the compressor and flushing the system. Need to know whether you have an A6 or R4 compressor. The internal compressor and manifold seals cannot remain supple with the system sitting like that for that amount of time. I highly doubt it would work for anymore than a few months before an o-ring gave out and puked the charge around the edge of the shell. If the physical wear to the compressor is low, you might get away with rebuilding it if you’re adamant about keeping it as original as possible. I’m visualizing an R4 compressor, but if it’s an A6, it’s a tougher unit and would likely do better with a rebuild.
you seem like an expert. were the AC components interchangeable BOP from that era? Like, mounts are different of course, but compressors, dryers, etc. I have a bunch of cars with AC that will never be used. And is the pancake better or the long one
 

1987 GMC Jimmy

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you seem like an expert. were the AC components interchangeable BOP from that era? Like, mounts are different of course, but compressors, dryers, etc. I have a bunch of cars with AC that will never be used. And is the pancake better or the long one

R4 compressors themselves are generally identical besides differences in coil clocking and possible manifold variances. Some coils are 9 o’clock and some are 12. That’s not the end of the world, though, to have to work around. You might have to lengthen the pigtail in some, but not all, cases. The original Delphi/Harrison compressors had some variances in suction/discharge port diameter, and some hoses had pilots while others didn’t. The new ones have a uniform manifold design and use different spacer seal combos to compensate for hose block differences. @CorvairGeek can likely elaborate on this better. Correct hose blocks are part of making new hoses so that’s not a dealbreaker either. I believe the A6s utilize either a 2 or 10 o’clock coil clocking, but the suction/discharge sizes, not to mention the manifolds themselves are the same. I’ll admit to not knowing these like the R4s and V5s, though.

O-tubes are universal in terms of physical fit, you just have to decide which color you want to go with. GM white is what they came with, but I’ve switched to Ford blue as my personal practice, and I think @yevgenievich has tried Ford red, Chrysler orange, or both? The color corresponds to orifice diameter. The logic behind going to the next size smaller (.072” white to .067” blue to .062” red and so on) is compensating for the thicc R12 condenser tubes that don’t work as efficiently with dissipating R134a’s heat and helping the system work better in non-highway settings. I think it does help. The old condensers are very flush friendly, though, which is important to me so I’m in no hurry to run out and buy parallel flow condensers for all my vehicles. O-tubes are a replacement item because the screens can get full of trash.

Accumulators are not super interchangeable parts (e.g. B Body has its own, G Body has its own, square body has its own, etc.), but you should make a habit of conceding that if an old accumulator is exposed to the atmosphere outside of a few minutes during installation, the desiccant is ruined, and you need to get a new one.

The R4 pancake is an inferior design to really anything out there. That’s not to say that an individual compressor can’t go for many miles and work quietly, it does happen, but their design makes them more prone to not do either. The new ones have been built only by Comp Works/Four Seasons for like 25 years so there’s that monopoly. The A6 is solid, effective, just outdated compared with how designs improved over time like with Sandens or the Delphi/Harrison V5 and V7. They’re more expensive to deal with and very heavy to do what they do, but I would be open to resealing one. Even an R4 that didn’t have a lot of miles might be a candidate for a reseal, but if it had more than 80K, I’d junk it if it puked around the shell. I think puking around the shaft seal is more of an A6 attribute, but they’ve since come out with a better than OEM shaft seal for those.
 

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two pancakes, 1-3 the not-pancake(depends if what i saw from a distance are generators or ac compressors, didnt look closely)
What kind is the large one?
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The large one is the A6, and the pancake is R4
 

AuroraGirl

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The large one is the A6, and the pancake is R4
So neither are inherently the good ones, okay. Sanden is the one i need?

is there any value to these now old cores that would need a lot of work?
 

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I've been looking into restoring my AC system too and based on alot of research, I decided to go with R12a, not R12. It is a drop in replacement for R12. No modifications needed from the original system. It is still produced and legal (unlike R12) and is actually the standard in Canada. Its basically propane with some additives. It cools better, improves mileage because it is lower pressure so less work for the compressor, and helps components last alot longer because of the lower pressure too. Dont worry about it being propane, the amount your putting in would at the very WORST cause a small flash. Nothing crazy. Most likely if you had a leak it would slowly leak out and not ever be enough to do anything. Its no more dangerous than the gas in the carb that can flood and overflow onto the headers... The only reason it isnt used here is because there was a lot of lobbying by auto manufacturers when they first banned R12. They wanted to force people to bring their cars into the dealer to put in a whole new R134a system rather than just buying a couple cans of R12a and calling it a day. You can buy it on Ebay or Amazon and its fairly cheap. Get the RedTek stuff from Canada, its the best.
 

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I've been looking into restoring my AC system too and based on alot of research, I decided to go with R12a, not R12. It is a drop in replacement for R12. No modifications needed from the original system. It is still produced and legal (unlike R12) and is actually the standard in Canada. Its basically propane with some additives. It cools better, improves mileage because it is lower pressure so less work for the compressor, and helps components last alot longer because of the lower pressure too. Dont worry about it being propane, the amount your putting in would at the very WORST cause a small flash. Nothing crazy. Most likely if you had a leak it would slowly leak out and not ever be enough to do anything. Its no more dangerous than the gas in the carb that can flood and overflow onto the headers... The only reason it isnt used here is because there was a lot of lobbying by auto manufacturers when they first banned R12. They wanted to force people to bring their cars into the dealer to put in a whole new R134a system rather than just buying a couple cans of R12a and calling it a day. You can buy it on Ebay or Amazon and its fairly cheap. Get the RedTek stuff from Canada, its the best.
r152a aswell. r401a, too but it requires some changes and i think isnt in small cans.
 

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r152a aswell. r401a, too but it requires some changes and i think isnt in small cans.

im gonna be doing my system next week. My plan is to replace seals, get the system to a vacuum, put a couple cans of the r12a with oil, evacuate again to vacuum (not sure its necessary but I will feel better), and then do a can of r12a with oil, a can of r12a with stop leak (for the hell of it), and the rest just r12a.
These other guys are saying the accumulator and Otube too. I was hoping my "oil flush" would do the trick but they probably know better than me so maybe ill do those too lol
 

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im gonna be doing my system next week. My plan is to replace seals, get the system to a vacuum, put a couple cans of the r12a with oil, evacuate again to vacuum (not sure its necessary but I will feel better), and then do a can of r12a with oil, a can of r12a with stop leak (for the hell of it), and the rest just r12a.
These other guys are saying the accumulator and Otube too. I was hoping my "oil flush" would do the trick but they probably know better than me so maybe ill do those too lol
yeah flushing would be good, old oil is bleh why kill another component later on. anyway, does the square call for 3 cans? typically the call is in pounds, and if you use the r12a drop in, is it 100% match for match drop in? If so, you need to have the amount it requires. my 99 park avenue takes 2 pounds, so 2 full 12oz cans and then 8oz from the last can to get 32oz
 

mrburitto

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yeah flushing would be good, old oil is bleh why kill another component later on. anyway, does the square call for 3 cans? typically the call is in pounds, and if you use the r12a drop in, is it 100% match for match drop in? If so, you need to have the amount it requires. my 99 park avenue takes 2 pounds, so 2 full 12oz cans and then 8oz from the last can to get 32oz
To be honest, i didnt look up exactly how much I need yet. I ordered extra just to have it on hand and in case there is a leak somewhere. Figured I would look it up the day before so its fresh in my mind and adjust my amounts as needed. Im putting all those components in, just not sure how much of each yet lol
 

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To be honest, i didnt look up exactly how much I need yet. I ordered extra just to have it on hand and in case there is a leak somewhere. Figured I would look it up the day before so its fresh in my mind and adjust my amounts as needed. Im putting all those components in, just not sure how much of each yet lol
i dont think it would take anywhere near 2 pounds, i guess i dont know how hvac works but a single cab 1980 with a lower compression refrigerant probably doesnt need to cool a space like a 1999 buick full size luxury car with higher compression and a large cabin with front and rear vents and passenger control
 

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