350 vortec 5.7 lower intake leaking vacuum?? Help please

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RustyPile

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Wow! I got a good laugh at the lost count part. I'm glad it was under warranty but wow. Good move on the coolant change. I did that 6 years ago I think. Do you recall if they replaced the bolts?
It wasn't a bit funny at the time.. It was THE MOST unreliable vehicle I ever owned. But now I get a chuckle every time I tell the story. All that trouble because of a bad formulated antifreeze?????????

The only time I know the bolts were not replaced was the time I replaced the gaskets.. I don't remember the exact torque number, seems like it was only 13 -14 lbs. Under those numbers, they'd have to be made out of tin foil for them to be one use only.

I had discussions with the dealership Service Manager about something being defective, machined wrong, etc.. His "canned response" was, "We checked all that."....

The whole ordeal really soured me on GM products.. I never bought another new GM product.. I replaced the Suburban with a new (2007) F**d vehicle.. Drove it for 12 years and never had a single problem with it.. Then along came the famous Takada air bag debacle.. But that's another story for another time.
 

bucket

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So much good advice here since I posted last so I don't have much to add. Other than I do know that the FelPro metal gaskets did not used to include the manifold bolts. I reused the factory bolts countless times and the manifold always torqued down well.

@RanchWelder the Mahle gaskets are no longer available as metal? I bought a set a few years ago and used them in my '77 Vortec headed truck, so I know they at least USED to be available.
 

squaredeal91

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Just opened the box and I'm stoked! Came with bolts and the gaskets are so sweet I have no major permatex urges lol. Wish I knew about these sooner. They look galvanized and a magnet sticks strong. And I'll add that I was wrong about being felpro that just came off. The old ones turned out to be Mahle after all. I remember now because at the time I couldn't get a Fel-pro for some reason.
 

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RanchWelder

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Are you messing with us?
It took me a solid week to read through dozens of threads to order that set and find the recommended part number for the Vortec Fel_pro number.

Had to waste money on 2 sets of plastic gaskets before I got the correct set.
1 came with the Mahle Master rebuild kit: Plastic.
The other, when I looked at pictures for the $36 set showing metal.... and recieved... wait for it.... PLASTIC.
Same darn set.
Different part number.

Mahle does not like SquareBodies?
 
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RanchWelder

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So much good advice here since I posted last so I don't have much to add. Other than I do know that the FelPro metal gaskets did not used to include the manifold bolts. I reused the factory bolts countless times and the manifold always torqued down well.

@RanchWelder the Mahle gaskets are no longer available as metal? I bought a set a few years ago and used them in my '77 Vortec headed truck, so I know they at least USED to be available.
Suppose the Summit picture shows the bolts too, so YES, they might come with bolts now?

Yes, Vic Heinz has merged and Mahle is selling the same plastic gaskets, at 2 different prices, and neither one comes as metal.
Maybe Fel-Pro bought the dies to press the steel version? Never got a straight answer...

Still cannot beilve this nonsense has to be posted, in any thread, and Mahle did not send me metal gaskets when contacting the Alabama Sales Support crew.

Yah, I double posted and removed the Ben Kanobi picture stating: "The Force Is Strong With This One"...
No need for approval now...
 
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bucket

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The last few times I've got gasket sets, I've got them from Rock Auto. The descriptions actually specify if they are plastic or metal.
 

squaredeal91

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Okay so I'm about to put these on. I'm going to just use the permstex in the usual places and leave the runners dry. Any objections?

Also while I'm here I'm going to adjust all my valves since I'm waiting for stuff still. It's always had an occasional pop out the pipe that I've never tracked down. It seems to do it when full warm only. making me think valve. I did afterall do the original adjustment so maybe. Any thoughts?
 

squaredeal91

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Maybe I found my pop when removing drivers valve cover. Found this plug wire pressed to the valve cover.
 

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bucket

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Just use permatex on the China walls only, making sure to have a decent amount where the China walls meet the gaskets. If the intake has pitting around the coolant ports, put just a thin smear of rtv around them.

I think it's unlikely that your valve adjustment could cause the pop, but I won't say it's impossible.
 

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If you use regular permatex you can't start it up for 24 hours. I use the 90 minute "right stuff" in a tube and it works WAY better. No leaks or seapage even several years later and you can start the engine up 90 minutes after application. The GM "threadlocker" that is called out earlier in this thread for the bolts, is basically blue loctite 242. It is often already applied to the bolt threads when you get the new bolts.
 

squaredeal91

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The new bolts came coated with that whitish blue strength stuff on threads. Good thing because they were all equally not tight, i wouldn't say loose but pretty much were. Could have used a super short 1/4 wratchet to loosten them. I'm going to chase and clean all holes to dry so there's no mistake.

And I didn't see anything that made me think coolant was leaking and spraying to clean those ports. I could see how it could be possible but probably not in this case. Thanks for all the input so far everyone!
 

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It is possible a valve stem seal is leaking. Puffs of white smoke would be the indicator and account for OIL in the intake ports you photographed.
Tough to say, without testing. Let's hope that is not the issue?

A pressure leak down test would be required to investigate a valve stem seal leak, after you see oil or white smoke puffs in the exhaust.
Before you can test, you need to verify valve lash is 100% to spec.

Perhaps you could concentrate on the manifold leaking with the explained bolt torque weakness?
The problem with what you describe, loose hardware, is the possibility of air infiltration into the manifold and causing a lean condition, anywhere the excessive Permatex caused a poor seal.

How about verifying the rocker arms are exactly the same tension and the valve lift is not compromised with a worn lock nut or two?

Rocker lock nuts and the 3/8" studs, can and do get worn out and cause bent valves because people are afraid or not trained to re-set the lash to spec.

It is possible one or more valves have been running with improper rocker adjustment and caused a leaking valve stem seal.
Let's hope this condition has not been beating your cam and roller rockers to death.

Your pictures of the fuel/oil or coolant will tell you where to check for sloppy rocker adjustment. Remember, they are opposing tunnels...
Check and adjust them all. The bump switch will make this easier. Please disconnect the battery negative before wiring the bump switch?

The GM Dealership 99' service manual for the 5.7L (using a stock roller cam) calls for "1 additional 360 degree turn after lash is removed".
Page 6-208 Engine Mechanical 5.0L, 5.7L

(IE: the push rod cannot be moved up or down and rotating is just possible and not restricted).
***This is NOT the process for a flat tappet camshaft on a 5.7L***

If your seal got beat up, you'll know when the valve lash is way loose and the nut requires more than 1/2 turn to correct lash.
This will indicate the lock nut or the threads on the stud are worn out. You can crush the lock nut in a vice to temporarily fix it.
If the stud is worn threads, it will be OK with a slightly crushed lock nut. New lock nuts might still be loose if the threads are beat from loose rocker lash. You'll be re-adjusting exactly where the poor threads are when you tighten to spec.
Threads might be beat exactly where you need to be, when dialed in with the 1 full 360 degree turn, after zero lash.

Oil on a plug means oil bypassing your rings or bypassing your valve seals. Oil can bypass a working seal if the stud threads are worn and the rocker is hammering the seal. (I know I already said this, but it needs to be said again). Let's hope it is coolant and fuel from the leaking gaskets and loose manifold bolts.

If you find this situation, where the rockers are loose and lash is off the chart, prepare to remove a spring or two on the heads and swap a seal or two to correct the leak before you move forward. If you are certain the valve seals are OK, then a leak down test will inform you of a bent or leaking valve. This occurs due to loose hardware, leaking gaskets, leaking seals or all of the above. You may have a crack in the head leaking oil or coolant or both. Leak down test is really what you want to do.

I'll mail you my OTC Leak down test kit, if you want to borrow it.

You might find fixing the manifold gaskets gets you running.
Adjusting lash after this issue will safeguard your engine and inform you what else might be loose.
:)
 
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squaredeal91

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Thanks @RanchWelder for all the thoughts.
And Let's hope and pray the gaskets and the new updated spider take care of it lol. I'll update on the valve adjustment status probably tomorrow when i get it done. and when I adjusted them originally I did it engine running at full warm like I've always done it so im sure a little treak hear and there will be in order. This time I'll be doing it by the book and I'm hoping for the best.
 

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Yah, the bent spider is also a possibility... Now you get it.

It sucks constantly going by the book, however, in the long run, you cannot mod without a base map to stand on or start from.

Let me know if you want the leak down kit mailed to your home.
It is brand new.

Just send it back when you are done before you blow the engine, OK?

Hope and pray are not part of the diagnosis. Test everything.

Testing everything tells you the real deal, every time.

No guessing, no hoping. Facts rule.


"Everything matter's, all the time." -Welder

If you start this engine "without testing", you can cause a major repair which can easily be avoided by TESTING.

Try to do the next right thing and you will suceed.
There is no way to tell if the damages have cause piston ring or valve seal or head gasket failure without leak down testing.

"Hoping or Praying" for piston ring or head gasket seal, is not a mechanical or scientific solution.
 
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squaredeal91

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@RanchWelder I appreciate loaning the leakdown tester! I have one myself and will use it if necessary. Leading up to the no start I got signs of problems but was running relatively smooth and no smoke. Valve adjustment is done and I feel good about it. They were all equally needing an additional 3/4 turn (probablybecausei treatedit like a flat tappet). I feel pretty dumb telling you guys this lol but who els do I have to tell.
Lower intake manifold is on and torqued. Distributor is stabbed and set to scribed mark. I'm putting valve covers on now.

1- Is there any way to check the egr valve beside checking if the valve seals?
2-i forget how to check the pcv valve for good operation. It still rattles when I shake it lol. The check ball feels really sloppy in there tho. ??
 

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