1984 K10 5.3 Swap Build Advice. Bang for buck power.

[iglehart332]

Hey guys. I'm looking for advice. I want to put a reliable daily engine in my truck for the best price I can. Looking to make around 450hp at the crank. My first idea was to rebuild and upgrade a 5.3. As some of you might know everything is sky high right now. Here are some things I've found around my area (DFW Metro) . What should I replace / upgrade on this build to maximize "bang for buck" power?


Complete running pull out w/ 5.3 and 4L60E for around $1500
5.3 only for around $700 to $800
Rebuilt 4L60E (no core) $1400
Summit 5.3 long block rated at 450hp $3500 (Good reviews on summit but ATK the manufacturer has horrible reviews)
Machine work $????


Here are some pics of my truck. I completely redid the frame, suspension and axles. I have Dakota Digital RTX gauges ready to go in.

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[dvdswan]

Find out how many miles are on the combo. The engines are good for 300k, so if it has over 150k you could bring the price down. Does it come with the PCM and t/case?

I got mine (03 Tahoe LM7, 4L60, NP246 w/ harness and PCM) for 1500 with 88K on the clock. Prices vary around the country so shop around.

 

[iglehart332]

Find out how many miles are on the combo. The engines are good for 300k, so if it has over 150k you could bring the price down. Does it come with the PCM and t/case?

I got mine (03 Tahoe LM7, 4L60, NP246 w/ harness and PCM) for 1500 with 88K on the clock. Prices vary around the country so shop around.When did you get yours?

Yes complete motor but I havent thought much about getting the t-case with a 4wd because I have a rebuilt NP205. When did you get yours? Best I can find right like 160k. Did you use the driver side drop t-case in your build? I will have to get an adapter for the t-case. They aren't cheap either..

 

[TotalyHucked]

I bought a pullout 104k miles aluminum 5.3/4L65E combo from a junkyard (friend owns it, out of his personal stash) with computer and harness. He drove the Envoy Denali it came out of before pulling it, it was rearended. Had to pay a pretty penny for it but it had 799 heads, TBSS style intake, flat tops and was all aluminum which is what I wanted. Pulled the top end off, cam out and inspected the bottom end. It turned like butter and the thrust checked out so I didn't go any further. With the cam I'm running, my tuner figures I'm in the 425hp range and it's alot of fun.

I wouldn't hesitate a bit to buy a used one. The nicer/lower mile is gonna cost more but if you get a dirt cheap one, you can get it machined and throw more goodies out of it. I have a friend in FL that paid $200 for a torn down 5.3 at a swap meet. With machine work and upgrades, he'll be in it less than that crate motor you mentioned with similar power. There's more than one way to skin a cat

 

[Bextreme04]

I'd just get the 5.3 and harness/pcm, then get a takeout 4L80 and use that with your 205. It will be indestructible and cheaper. I'd just carefully pick a 4L80 that doesn't smell burnt and run it, no rebuild necessary for only 450hp. That 4L60 will need a rebuild and still be on the edge of life at 450hp without some upgrades. The 4L60 and 4L80 use the same connector and you would just need to have your tuner do a trans segment swap.

For the engine, I would maybe just do all new gaskets, new truck cam and higher lift valvetrain, long tube headers, paint it and run it with that 4L80 for many years.

 

[iglehart332]

I'd just get the 5.3 and harness/pcm, then get a takeout 4L80 and use that with your 205. It will be indestructible and cheaper. I'd just carefully pick a 4L80 that doesn't smell burnt and run it, no rebuild necessary for only 450hp. That 4L60 will need a rebuild and still be on the edge of life at 450hp without some upgrades. The 4L60 and 4L80 use the same connector and you would just need to have your tuner do a trans segment swap.

For the engine, I would maybe just do all new gaskets, new truck cam and higher lift valvetrain, long tube headers, paint it and run it with that 4L80 for many years.

This is very valuable info. From what I can see now the 4L80 will be way easier to hook up to my stock NP205 to TH400 adapter and I won't have to spend $700 on a different adapter from advanced. Although I'm still trying to wrap my head around the diffrences between using a 4WD and 2WD 4L80. Thanks

 

[Bextreme04]

This is very valuable info. From what I can see now the 4L80 will be way easier to hook up to my stock NP205 to TH400 adapter and I won't have to spend $700 on a different adapter from advanced. Although I'm still trying to wrap my head around the diffrences between using a 4WD and 2WD 4L80. Thanks

I am doing a 4L80/NP205 in place of my TH400. I have the L29 454/4L80e donor from a 97 K2500 suburban that will be going in place of my 350/TH400. The stock 4wd 4L80 output shaft is too short for the figure 8 adapter. If you have a later year circle adapter NP205, it is the correct length. I bought a used long 2wd output shaft in good condition from a transmission parts warehouse for about $10 and will need to cut about 2" off the end of it.

The TH400 index ring is a LARGER diameter than the 4L80e. So you will either need an adapter spacer with a TH400 index ring on one side and a 4L80E ring on the other, or you will need to have someone cut 0.01" diameter off the index ring on the stock transfer case adapter, or you will need to buy an advance adapters one that is already cut for the right index ring.

You can keep the stock mechanical speedo and use an inline VSS signal adapter on the NP205, or you can pay someone like ORD to machine your output housing for the standard NP241 VSS tone wheel and sensor, but then you would need a 90-91 fully electric speedometer to swap in also. I'm going to use an adapter on the T-case and also use an electric speedo from a 91 Suburban that I sourced. I'm using an LS 0411 ECU to run the 454/4L80.

 

[iglehart332]

I am doing a 4L80/NP205 in place of my TH400. I have the L29 454/4L80e donor from a 97 K2500 suburban that will be going in place of my 350/TH400. The stock 4wd 4L80 output shaft is too short for the figure 8 adapter. If you have a later year circle adapter NP205, it is the correct length. I bought a used long 2wd output shaft in good condition from a transmission parts warehouse for about $10 and will need to cut about 2" off the end of it.

The TH400 index ring is a LARGER diameter than the 4L80e. So you will either need an adapter spacer with a TH400 index ring on one side and a 4L80E ring on the other, or you will need to have someone cut 0.01" diameter off the index ring on the stock transfer case adapter, or you will need to buy an advance adapters one that is already cut for the right index ring.

You can keep the stock mechanical speedo and use an inline VSS signal adapter on the NP205, or you can pay someone like ORD to machine your output housing for the standard NP241 VSS tone wheel and sensor, but then you would need a 90-91 fully electric speedometer to swap in also. I'm going to use an adapter on the T-case and also use an electric speedo from a 91 Suburban that I sourced. I'm using an LS 0411 ECU to run the 454/4L80.

Do you know what is entailed to swap the 4L80E output shaft? I guess I will look for any 4L80 I can and if it isn't the "rv" / slip yoke output shaft, then swap it. I cant find any information of what the "rv" transmissions were used on. I am using Dakota Digital gauges and from what I understand it is plug and play with my LM7 or LQ9 ECU (Depends what I can find)

 

[Bextreme04]

Do you know what is entailed to swap the 4L80E output shaft? I guess I will look for any 4L80 I can and if it isn't the "rv" / slip yoke output shaft, then swap it. I cant find any information of what the "rv" transmissions were used on. I am using Dakota Digital gauges and from what I understand it is plug and play with my LM7 or LQ9 ECU (Depends what I can find)

Yes, you will need to get a VSS on the transfer case though to send the output speed to the ECU. An LM7 or LQ9 will use a P01 or P59 ECU.. the most common P01 ECU used in swaps is an 0411. That would be the standard ECU with Red/Blue connectors from ~99-02. ~03-07 is a P59 ECU. You can get HP tuners to mess with all of that or you can go open sourced if you want to mess with it yourself. Both of those ECU's can be modified with available open source software and a ~$60 tool.

Changing the rear output shaft is super easy if you are already taking the trans apart. It is just held into the rear planet housing with a snap ring. You can get an idea by looking at this exploded diagram here: https://www.wittrans.com/parts?type=4L80E&section=33_planet
If you get a 2wd trans and just cut the shaft down, you will have a rear VSS sensor already in the trans. It wont read right if you are in 4lo, but some people are OK with that. The later 4wd 4L80e's(my 97 is one of them) will not have a rear VSS, as it was contained in the transfer case on later 4wd. Earlier ones had the ISS(Input Speed Sensor), OSS(Output Speed Sensor), and VSS(Vehicle Speed Sensor). ISS and OSS were the two speed sensors inside the trans and the VSS was on the transfer case. Newer ones ditched the OSS in the transmission and used the VSS as OSS for trans shifting.

Since your truck is 4wd, the best option(in my opinion) is to have the VSS on the transfer case. You will also want to connect your 4WD indicator switch to the correct pin on the ECU. This lets you set different parameters for engine braking and shifting when it is in 4wd and you will also get correct shifting when in 4Lo. If you never do any wheeling and you get a trans with the OSS, you can use that as VSS and just know that it will shift bad in 4lo. The ECU will take that VSS in and then you can modify how it reads that and outputs a VSS signal to your Dakota digital gauges.

An "RV" 4L80 would have been used in RV and motorhome chassis built after 1991 that were using a chevy drivetrain. They will often be paired with a 454 of some kind. You can often identify them by the drum emergency brake bolted to the tail housing. The same trans was used in box trucks and medium duty trucks as well.

If you get a 2wd 4L80 and take the tailhousing off, you MUST change the oiling plug on the back of the trans. 2wd units have a plug with an orifice hole that provided lubrication to the tailshaft output bearing. 4wd units have a solid plug in that location. If you don't replace the orifice plug with the solid plug, you will dump A LOT of fluid into your adapter and it will leak badly.

 

[iglehart332]

Yes, you will need to get a VSS on the transfer case though to send the output speed to the ECU. An LM7 or LQ9 will use a P01 or P59 ECU.. the most common P01 ECU used in swaps is an 0411. That would be the standard ECU with Red/Blue connectors from ~99-02. ~03-07 is a P59 ECU. You can get HP tuners to mess with all of that or you can go open sourced if you want to mess with it yourself. Both of those ECU's can be modified with available open source software and a ~$60 tool.

Changing the rear output shaft is super easy if you are already taking the trans apart. It is just held into the rear planet housing with a snap ring. You can get an idea by looking at this exploded diagram here: https://www.wittrans.com/parts?type=4L80E&section=33_planet
If you get a 2wd trans and just cut the shaft down, you will have a rear VSS sensor already in the trans. It wont read right if you are in 4lo, but some people are OK with that. The later 4wd 4L80e's(my 97 is one of them) will not have a rear VSS, as it was contained in the transfer case on later 4wd. Earlier ones had the ISS(Input Speed Sensor), OSS(Output Speed Sensor), and VSS(Vehicle Speed Sensor). ISS and OSS were the two speed sensors inside the trans and the VSS was on the transfer case. Newer ones ditched the OSS in the transmission and used the VSS as OSS for trans shifting.

Since your truck is 4wd, the best option(in my opinion) is to have the VSS on the transfer case. You will also want to connect your 4WD indicator switch to the correct pin on the ECU. This lets you set different parameters for engine braking and shifting when it is in 4wd and you will also get correct shifting when in 4Lo. If you never do any wheeling and you get a trans with the OSS, you can use that as VSS and just know that it will shift bad in 4lo. The ECU will take that VSS in and then you can modify how it reads that and outputs a VSS signal to your Dakota digital gauges.

An "RV" 4L80 would have been used in RV and motorhome chassis built after 1991 that were using a chevy drivetrain. They will often be paired with a 454 of some kind. You can often identify them by the drum emergency brake bolted to the tail housing. The same trans was used in box trucks and medium duty trucks as well.

If you get a 2wd 4L80 and take the tailhousing off, you MUST change the oiling plug on the back of the trans. 2wd units have a plug with an orifice hole that provided lubrication to the tailshaft output bearing. 4wd units have a solid plug in that location. If you don't replace the orifice plug with the solid plug, you will dump A LOT of fluid into your adapter and it will leak badly.

Thanks for the info! I did some research also and looks like ORD is the way to go..

Labor to Machine Customer's NP205 Speedometer Housing for GM VSS, Tone Wheel, Plug, Speed Sensor and Pigtail Included

Labor to Machine Customer's NP205 Speedometer Housing for GM VSS, Tone Wheel, Plug, Speed Sensor and Pigtail Included Return shipping is calculated in cart. Shipping from you to us is not included. Please ship with all your contact information included and or a copy of your order. Shipping...

www.offroaddesign.com

 

[iglehart332]

Or this.. This is way cheaper if it works..

Speedometer 8K Pulse Generator

Dakota Digital manufactures digital instrumentation and accessories for the automotive, motorcycle and car audio enthusiast.

www.dakotadigital.com

 

[Bextreme04]

Or this.. This is way cheaper if it works..

Speedometer 8K Pulse Generator

Dakota Digital manufactures digital instrumentation and accessories for the automotive, motorcycle and car audio enthusiast.

www.dakotadigital.com

Yes, but there are numerous reports of the LS computers having issues with that specific one. There is a 128k/min one that is highly recommended. It has the 40ppr that is very similar to the stock GM tone wheel output so it doesn't have issues like the 8k ones. It is more expensive, but it is important for the computer to get a good, clean signal or you can have shifting and drivability issues. Since you dont need to keep the mechanical speedo, it should work good for you.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dak-sen01128?rrec=true

 

[Camar068]

Yes, you will need to get a VSS on the transfer case though to send the output speed to the ECU.

You can get the reluctor wheel that clamps onto the output shaft of the trans if you want . You'll then need to drill/tap a hole for the sensor in the trans adapter. I got the wrong wheel for my output shaft, but put tapered spacers (tapered aluminum pipe) in place then smacked it on there. If I have to go there again, I'll replace with the clamp on. Give them a call and see if they have one for the 4l80e. Like the one in the link below.

Clamp on Reluctor wheel

 

[Bextreme04]

You can get the reluctor wheel that clamps onto the output shaft of the trans if you want . You'll then need to drill/tap a hole for the sensor in the trans adapter. I got the wrong wheel for my output shaft, but put tapered spacers (tapered aluminum pipe) in place then smacked it on there. If I have to go there again, I'll replace with the clamp on. Give them a call and see if they have one for the 4l80e. Like the one in the link below.

Clamp on Reluctor wheel

You can’t fit that on the NP205 figure 8 adapter… there just isn’t any room. It also doesn’t solve the problem of not reading the correct speed in 4-lo. If you want a reluctor and standard sensor the best bet is ORD and the modified NP205 output.