Why trans/driveline 'clunks' when I put in reverse? '87 TBI 350 w/700r4

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Jwernatl

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My driveline 'CLUNKS' so bad when I put my truck in reverse, it doesn't do it in 'drive' only when I go into 'reverse'.

Even if the idle is at 650rpm - BUT it's very very bad on cold start up w/idle at 1000.

torque converter?

With truck in park, there is very little slack in drive line

-I'm confident the CLUNK will eventually rip my driveshaft, trans, rear-end, and or the transfer case. what can I point to?

the truck is all original - 4wd 350 V10 long-bed
 

Vbb199

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U joints ok?
Sloppy axle?
 

Vbb199

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Nope - thats just it. it's all tight. it's gotta to be something Im missing - right?


Theres an "anti clunk" spring in the 700r4 that may be broken, kinda doubt thats whats up though

That spring is just for the fwd-rev transition
 

Jwernatl

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Theres an "anti clunk" spring in the 700r4 that may be broken, kinda doubt thats whats up though

That spring is just for the fwd-rev transition
Wow, is one sping for each? 1. FWD 2. REV?

OR one spring for both?
 

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Wow, is one sping for each? 1. FWD 2. REV?

OR one spring for both?


Its not even a spring really, its a C shaped clip for the low/rev, you may also find, going from reverse, to all the way down to manual 1, it might clunk?
 

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My driveline 'CLUNKS' so bad when I put my truck in reverse, it doesn't do it in 'drive' only when I go into 'reverse'.

Even if the idle is at 650rpm - BUT it's very very bad on cold start up w/idle at 1000.

torque converter?

With truck in park, there is very little slack in drive line

-I'm confident the CLUNK will eventually rip my driveshaft, trans, rear-end, and or the transfer case. what can I point to?

the truck is all original - 4wd 350 V10 long-bed


Let us know if you figure it out tho! Start with the rear end and work your way to the trans. I would assume your problem lies there. Check diff yoke for side play and drive shaft for rotation
 

RecklessWOT

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My truck used to clunk like a bastard when I'd put it in gear. Then my rear blew a couple months later, fixed it and hasn't clunked since. Realistically it could be anything but anything is possible. At this point, basically any moving part between the engine and rear wheels is suspect. Have someone shift in and out of gear for you while your head is under there (use someone you really trust, and preferably before you guys have drank too much) and hopefully you'll hear what area it's coming from. If it's coming from all the way in back it could be rear end, u joints, etc. If it's coming from up front more near the trans or T-case then you gotta get a lot more detailed with your search
 

Vbb199

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Disconnect driveshaft, feel rear end play by rotating pinion back and forth... maybe post video if you dont know what you're looking for?

If you do, great. Let us know
 

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While listening under your truck watch and listen at the leaf springs and see if the slap together when put into reverse. Some called it spring wrap some spring slap.
 

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My 700r4 does it as well, then my rear end blew up:rotflmao: it still did it in 4wd the times I had to move my truck after it broke. Although I will say the rear end was tight, pinion to ring gear, it somehow made the center pin bolt vanish without a trace and dropped the pin, I just associated that mostly to the fact it was a 10 bolt rear, but the trans slamming into gear didn't help at all.

Mine is also extra aggressive in reverse, and that reverse to first sounds familiar, but I can't say for sure.

I just associated the clunk to the 700r4, mine was more of a slam than a clunk, I could be exaggerating cuz none of my vehicles have ever done that, squares or even newer stuff..
 

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@Bextreme04, and @Matt69olds, and other transmission guys need to get in on this.

These guys are the experienced trans. people. And let me look at past threads to find the one's I was thinking about.

And @Ricko1966, and he's already on this @Vbb199
 
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Matt69olds

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This is the location of the check ball capsule in the case
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I have hesitated to comment on this, I know next to nothing about transfer cases. It seems all the obvious stuff had been checked out as ok. Before tearing into the transfer case or transmission, I’d suggest replacing anything with the slightest about of slop. A little slop here or there can add up to a a large amount of slop.

Id be curious what the line pressure is. You need a gauge that reads to 300psi with 1/8 pipe threads. The pressure port is above the shift linkage.

In in drive, with the engine idling, you should see around 90psi, and then smoothly and immediately increase as throttle is added. In reverse, about 125 at idle, once again smoothly and immediately going up with throttle to around 250ish, depending on calibration. If the pressure is much higher at idle, make sure the TV cable is adjusted correctly.


There is a anti-clutch spring on the low/reverse roller clutch support. It’s designed to keep the support preloaded against the case with the transmission in drive. I can tell you I have seen cases so chewed up the support didn’t come out without destroying the case due to severe wear. Usually those transmissions were in trucks with snowplows, or people playing in the mud. I can’t recall anyone complaining about a clunk shifting into reverse, of course by the time the give the transmission to me for repair, a clunk is the least of their problems.

The 4L60 uses two clutches to reverse. The first is the reverse input clutch. It’s the drum right behind the pump, the 2-4 band wraps around and stops the drum from turning in 2nd and 4th gear. GM has changed designs on the pump, drum, and pistons many times over the years. One of the design changes was the size of the feed holes in the pump and drum. I have no clue why they played around with the hole sizes. If you replace a small feed hole pump with one with a large hole, combined with a large hole in the drum, you will get a hard reverse engagement. Replace a large hole pump with a small hole, combined with a small hole in the drum, you will get a slow reverse (or possibly no reverse). They also played around with bleed holes in the piston (designed to allow air to escape the drum. The early drums had a check ball that seated once fluid was applied. Then the eliminated the check ball and drilled a small hole in the piston. The idea of the hole was once the clutch applied, the wavy clutch plate would flatten out and cover the hole, sealing off the orifice. The problem was, in order for the hole to be covered by the flattened wave plate, enough pressure needs to build fast enough to flatten the plate. I’m guessing this is why they played around with pump/drum hole sizes, trying to find a combination that works.

The other clutch needed is the low/reverse clutch. It has a captured checkball in a capsule that’s driven into the case. The check ball is suppose to seat when you shift to reverse, forcing fluid thru a orifice to slow the clutch apply. Once you shift out of reverse, fluid reversed due to the return springs forces the piston to its released position, the fluid unseats the ball and allows fluid to escape quickly.

If this is a new problem, then pump/drum/piston mismatch isn’t a concern. If the transmission has been recently overhauled, then mismatched parts might a possibility. It’s possible for the check ball in the capsule to fall out during cleaning. Some builders remove it to speed reverse engagement. Excessive clutch pack clearance, eliminating the wave plate from the low/reverse clutch can also be a cause. Some builders remove the wave plates to speed clutch apply, definitely not something you would want to do in a daily driver 4x4.
 
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Jwernatl

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it's gonna take me a minute to digest - but i will and I will let you know. Im going to try and check the line pressure. seems like a simple check. I have a guage -

is it the correct style?????? gotta go into the attic...
 

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